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[Python-Dev] Question about PEP 484

Hi, my name is Teddy Sudol. I work with Adam and Rebecca on pytype.

The explanation of stub files is unclear. The section you linked starts
with, "Stub files are files containing type hints that are only for use by
the type checker, not at runtime." According to
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0484/#acceptable-type-hints, type hints
may be classes, abstract base classes, types defined in the `types` and
`typing` modules, type variables, type aliases and None. Further in the
section you linked, PEP 484 also states, "Stub files have the same syntax
as regular Python modules," and, "no runtime behavior should be expected of
stub files."

"Have the same syntax as regular Python modules" and "are files containing
type hints" are at odds with each other. This has led to compatibility
issues between Mypy and pytype. For example, `b''` is not a valid type
annotation, but until a month ago, `codecs.pyi` in typeshed used exactly
If statements can be useful for things like version checks, but on the
other hand, pyi files aren't supposed to have any runtime behavior.
Additionally, codifying the syntax for pyi files would settle questions
like whether constants should be typed using "x: <type hint>" or "x = ...
# type: <type hint>".

We would like to see a clear statement about the syntax of stub files.
Personally, I think they should be a subset of Python, but I'd also be
happy with an EBNF grammar for them.

-- Teddy

On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 11:05 AM Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> wrote:

> On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 at 10:32 Adam Cataldo via Python-Dev <
> python-dev at python.org> wrote:
>> *Hi Folks,Cc: Rebecca, pytypeThis is Adam Cataldo; I?m the engineering
>> manager for the Python team at Google. Rebecca Chen, our lead pytype
>> <https://github.com/google/pytype> contributor, and I are interested in
>> helping finalize PEP 484 if possible. To that end, we wanted to find out
>> what technical issues the PEP 484 authors feel they still need to finalize.
>> We also wanted to know how we can help.We have a large Python code base at
>> Google, and may be able to use this to help resolve current incomplete
>> definitions, by collecting data on how types are used. We also have a
>> couple ambiguities that we?d love to get closure on: - One thing we care
>> about in particular, given the implementation of pytype, is the detailed
>> definition of what goes in a .pyi file. Do folks think this makes sense to
>> include as part of PEP 484, or would this be better in a separate PEP? We?d
>> love to get your thoughts.*
> What specifically do you want beyond
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0484/#stub-files?
>> * - The relationship between unicode and typing.Text in Python 2 has been
>> a recurring source of confusion for our users. Especially since we
>> contributed <https://github.com/python/peps/pull/302> to the current state
>> of affairs, we?d like to figure out how to establish clarity here.Thoughts?*
> Do be aware, Adam, that due to Guido's retirement last week people might
> be a bit preoccupied and so a little slow in responding. But then again
> Guido just got a bit more free time so he might chime in on this one. ;)
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