Subject: Re: OGM vs Matroska? - msg#00004

List: video.thoggen.devel

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On Monday 28 March 2005 12:04, Sami Haahtinen wrote:

Hi,

> I can't stop wondering why you have chosen Ogg Media container over
> Matroska? I just keep wondering if there is a reason for this or is it just
> an oversight for the fact that Ogg Media container is a crude hack that
> wasn't really meant for widespread use.

There are OGM files (what you call Ogg Media), and there are Ogg files. OGM is
the one that's a crude hack and that's not conforming to the Ogg
specification. Thoggen does not create files in OGM format.

Thoggen creates .ogg files that conform to the specification.

> Quick reading about Avi, Matroska and OGM comparison. All the
> interesting bits are mostly in the summary section. (this might be
> biased though)
> http://www.alexander-noe.de/Video/Documents/containers.pdf

This document talks about OGM as well (although the basic properties of OGM
and Ogg files are the same of course).

> I'm not trying to convince you to drop OGM support, but it might benefit
> the project to include Matroska support too. Since the support for
> muxing and demuxing Matroska is in Gstreamer, it should be reasonably
> straight forward to add support.
>
> How about it?

The reason I chose Ogg is because it is the 'natural' container format for
Theora and Vorbis (all Xiph Foundation specs), and because the
Theora/Vorbis-in-Ogg combination is a fairly proven one: Fluendo's streaming
server (flumotion) uses these as well, so the plugins are fairly well tested.
Also, I consider Theora/Vorbis-in-Ogg still more 'main-stream' than anything
in a Matroska container, meaning that I expect playback support to be less
problematic in general.

I've got absolutely nothing against Matroska, but I also don't feel strongly
enough about it to go and debug the GStreamer matroskamux plugin or the
underlying libraries if problems arise.

Nevertheless, Matroska support will be added at some point, together with AVI
and support for other codecs. There's work being done on 'profiles' in
GStreamer, and I'll wait for the outcome of that before I do any further work
on this in Thoggen.

Cheers
-Tim

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Re: OGM vs Matroska?

Sami Haahtinen ÐÐÑÐÑ: I just keep wondering if there is a reason for this or is it just an oversight for the fact that Ogg Media container is a crude hack that wasn't really meant for widespread use. Still OGM is widely used, and MKV seems to be almost alpha i remember 2 months ago there were changes to EBML standard. Anywasy, since Thoggen is based on GStreamer, i'd wish it support anything that GStreamer can, both for reading and writing I'd wish to have fun experimenting with MKV/Dirac :D ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_ide95&alloc_id396&op=click

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Re: switch DVD drives?

On Sunday 27 March 2005 04:41, Arioch wrote: > Imagine i have a box with two DVD devices. > > Can i say Thoggen which one to use, or current Thoggen will use the 1st > found one ? It should detect both drives and you should be able to select the drive you want via the combo box. > Imagine i have some movie, recorded on two discs. > Can i insert them both into different drives and ask Thoggen to rip them > without asking humans to swap disks, so it will automagically switch > from DVD0 to DVD1 device ? (and without sing unionfs ;) ) That's not supported at the moment, and I don't really see support for that being added any time soon either, I'm afraid. Cheers -Tim ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click

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Re: OGM vs Matroska?

Tim Müller wrote: The reason I chose Ogg is because it is the 'natural' container format for Theora and Vorbis (all Xiph Foundation specs), and because the Theora/Vorbis-in-Ogg combination is a fairly proven one: Fluendo's streaming server (flumotion) uses these as well, so the plugins are fairly well tested. Also, I consider Theora/Vorbis-in-Ogg still more 'main-stream' than anything in a Matroska container, meaning that I expect playback support to be less problematic in general. AH! I completely forgot about Theora, which ofcourse changes the situation quite a bit. Theora being the Xiph way and OGG does fit more naturally to that purpose. I've got absolutely nothing against Matroska, but I also don't feel strongly enough about it to go and debug the GStreamer matroskamux plugin or the underlying libraries if problems arise. I understand that really well. I fiddled with matroskamux yesterday and while it is included, muxing is not as straightforward as it seems. Either it was my pipeline or it is the muxer, i'll fiddle with it some more to see which one it is. Nevertheless, Matroska support will be added at some point, together with AVI and support for other codecs. There's work being done on 'profiles' in GStreamer, and I'll wait for the outcome of that before I do any further work on this in Thoggen. Great, that is good enough for me. - S ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click