Subject: Re: Epiphany vs. Firefox (Duck!) - msg#00060

List: linux.ubuntu.devel

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On Tue, 2004-09-21 at 16:25 -0400, Britt Selvitelle wrote:
> Again let me emphasize that I think Firefox is an amazing browser, and
> is a good choice for some people who want to utilize some of the
> extensions available. I use Firefox quite a bit, but I feel at this
> point, Epiphany integrates better with the Desktop, and therefore makes
> a better candidate for the default that most people will experience when
> they first boot Ubuntu.

Hi Britt,

So, this was a difficult choice to make as we were developing Ubuntu,
before we went public with the Preview release.

Initially, I strongly supported putting Epiphany in by default, as it
more thoroughly supported GNOME tech such as GConf (so admins could lock
it down) and all the nice integration bits such as desktop-wide proxy
configuration and so on. We discussed this a bit, and I managed to put a
case that Epiphany was the way to go instead of Firefox (even though
Epiphany was already starting to look like the underdog).

But as I saw Firefox integration with GNOME improve (and yes, it still
has far to go), and watched its popularity and brand awareness rise, I
had to wonder how users would see Ubuntu - "Oh, it has Firefox, I know
that!" or "It has a different web browser"... and the way my Mum says
the word "different", it sounds like zombies are going to attack at any
moment. ;-)

I ended up queasily suggesting that we ship with Firefox by default. I
don't want to go through a whole pros/cons list, because it really comes
down to two things: brand and familiarity. With the world, not just with
GNOME. ;-)

We *can* change our minds in the future. In fact, as Epiphany improves
to compete with Firefox on features, familiarity, depth of community and
so on, it may make sense to suffer the brand challenge, and ship a
browser that is wholly GTK+-based, integrates with GNOME in ways that
Firefox might not be able to, etc., etc.

But for WartyWarthog, we're committed to Firefox (if only because we're
post-Preview and very well on our way to release).

Thanks,

- Jeff

--
Ooh, ooh, ooh! http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ Ubuntu!

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Re: Epiphany vs. Firefox (Duck!)

On Wed, 2004-09-22 at 02:40 +0200, Michael Banck wrote: > On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 04:25:43PM -0400, Britt Selvitelle wrote: > > Using Firefox I've found a number of integration problems(ok 4 :) ... > > [...] > > Personally, I feel the point that Firefox ignores the GNOME-wide > proxy-settings is the worest, the user has to setup the proxy again[1] > and might even be totally unaware what the problem is (after all, he has > successfully configured the proxy already). I totally forgot about that one. Yeah that's worse than the GUI reasons I mentioned :) Britt

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Re: Epiphany vs. Firefox (Duck!)

This should be fixed before 1.0 Final: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=242897 On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 02:40:59 +0200, Michael Banck <mbanck@xxxxxxx> wrote: > On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 04:25:43PM -0400, Britt Selvitelle wrote: > > Using Firefox I've found a number of integration problems(ok 4 :) ... > > [...] > > Personally, I feel the point that Firefox ignores the GNOME-wide > proxy-settings is the worest, the user has to setup the proxy again[1] > and might even be totally unaware what the problem is (after all, he has > successfully configured the proxy already). > > Could be I chose this because I need to use a proxy :) > > Michael > > -- > [1] Same goes for synaptic, which is even worse as it somewhat pretends > to be a GNOME application > > > > -- > ubuntu-devel mailing list > ubuntu-devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel > -- Get Firefox - Popup blocking, tabbed browsing and great security: http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=9&t=1

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Re: Epiphany vs. Firefox (Duck!)

On Wed, 2004-09-22 at 02:03 +0100, Martin Alderson wrote: > This should be fixed before 1.0 Final: > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=242897 (And we'll be making all efforts to ship 1.0, by the way.) - Jeff -- Ooh, ooh, ooh! http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ Ubuntu!

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Firefox

I think Ubuntu needs to put a firefox button on the front page to help spread the word. Also does anyone know where we can get the deb of the new FIrefox PR 1?