Re: Mapping files?

On Mon, 2003-02-24 at 21:15, Guy Murphy wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> > I don't for a moment believe that the SAM/XTM specifications will
> > actually be comprehensible to your average web developer. We need
> > different tutorials for them, probably ones which focus on the tools
> > and the techniques.
> [snip]
> 
> Why?
> 
> One that focuses on on the "tools and techniques" for the Web developers...
> could you get any more patronising?
> 

But on 21 Feb, Guy wrote:

> I'm a reasonable example of a Web developer I believe, I'd like to
> hope I'm on the "smart" side, perhaps not... I've been following 
> topicmaps from before XTM, I've even implemented a handful topicmap 
> based applications, and XTM still intimidates me. The notion I believe
> that XTM is for general consumption is I think a silly one.

So which one is it, Guy. There seems to me to be an ambiguity between
these two statements.

If XTM is too complicated but tools, applications and tutorials geared
towards the web developer are patronising, where is the middle ground ?

> XSLT was successfully punted to the "average web developer", and I would
> personally argue that if XSLT can be handed to Web developers, any failing
> to convey TopicMaps to Web developers is not the failing of said developers.
> 

I don't think that anyone suggested otherwise.

> You'd have thought people would have learnt from the mistakes of SGML.
> 
> Consider what you said above... you effectively said these specs aren't
> consumable Web developers. If they aren't consumable by Web developers who
> do you envisage them being consumable by? Apart from you and yours of
> course.
> 

And you said the same yourself. Yet you say that the XSLT spec, on which
probably a hundred times more shelf-feet of tutorials and explanatory
material has been written, is a fair comparison. Now, I cannot dispute
with you that XSLT is popular. But I refuse to believe that it was
http://www.w3.org/TR/xslt that made it so and not the writings of such
people as Michael Kay, Jeni Tennison, and Ken Holmann. I know that the
spec didn't teach *me* XSLT, just as the XSL-FO spec is nothing more
than a handy reference for me when working with that recommendation. The
fact is that a recommendation has to be precise - ISO specs *have* to be
written the way that they are to be precise. Standards are *not* written
to be tutorials.

So. What is it that you as a web developer believe we (and you do
apparently think this *is* an 'us and them' situation) as a community of
interested individuals need to do to help web developers in getting
interested in using topic maps and getting their topic map based
applications up and on-line ?

Any suggestions would be most welcome.

Cheers,

Kal