Re: Template recursion, StackOverflowError, saxon:while a nd variable assignability

Hi,

Thanks.

It is all in the message track, I mentioned the conditions from the 
beginning and asked if this was the place or forum to discuss this and this 
is the answer I got:

> I could try to extract their essence and return with more
> info but is this forum the right place for this?

Yes, because saxon:assign is what needs replacing.
Yes, because saxon:something-better is the most likely thing to
appear soon.
No, but where else can XSLT 2.1/3.0 be profitably discussed?

 (Ed Willink)


Now I do not know what we can or cannot talk about here.

Thanks anyway.
Andre





> Hi Andre,
>
> Thank you for repeating once again the broad description of your system.
>
> And also thank you for the invitation to try to re-create your
> environment from this broad description in order to try to confirm and
> then solve the problem you have with attempting to produce an XSLT
> solution.
>
> This proposal doesn't need any comments...
>
> At this point we have established the fact that you are unable to
> describe and reproduce your problem in a concise and compact way.
>
> This makes it very probable that the real problem is not at all in the
> choice of language (XSLT or XSLT + saxon:assign, or any other
> programming language) but that the real problem is the complexity of
> your system.
>
> Such problems are best addressed at other forums, dealing with systems
> architecture.
>
> Let me once again confirm my interest and willingnes to help with any
> XSLT or algorithmic problem -- what initially I thought you had.
>
> Let me apologize that in xsl-list and in the saxon-help mailing list
> we are accustomed to a much greater degree of preciseness, which is
> usually a good pre-condition of being able to define, understand and
> solve a problem.
>
> Thanks,
> Dimitre.
>
>
>
> On 6/18/05, Andre Cusson <ac-ncSKzJSyWVNl57MIdRCFDg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Hi Dimitre,
> >
> > At 23:22 2005-06-17, you wrote:
> > >On 6/18/05, Andre Cusson <ac-ncSKzJSyWVNl57MIdRCFDg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > We seem to be on different planets.
> > >
> > >   Definitely.
> >
> > Hey, some common ground already ...
> >
> > OK, let me try to land closer.
> >
> > First, while hoping not to bother you or anyone, a few extracts from
> > previous messages in the "Template recursion, StackOverflowError,
> > saxon:while a nd variable assignability" track, some from answers to
> > questions not presented here as the focus here is on defining a problem to
> > solve, in an alternate way, as a generalization  from an issue already
> > tackled and solved using assign, this time in a non-assign way
> > ...  Cool!  So here are a few sentences that could have got lost in the 
> noise:
> >
> >
> > <
> > Just from memory I would say that typically they are global accumulators
> > that maintain some form of changing status maintained and shared by
> > multiple processes, and changing over time, for example, real-time
> > streaming security analysis, in parallel processing pipelines, over graphs
> > of potentially billions of nodes (that you would not want to copy over too
> > often, especially on-line), 24/7, with a large number of users (ex: 120 000
> > 000/week).
> >
> > The graph is a (generic) capacity network (multi-digraph) and one of the
> > tasks, for example, is to follow every path between node A and node B,
> > weighting the arcs and processing, while not getting tangled in a loop,
> > very quickly, very often, on possibly huge graphs, all in XSLT.  No
> > (significant) heuristics are currently used, only plain crunching, and
> > saxon:assign.  Of course, as paths are traversed and processed, some may be
> > found to be uninteresting at the time and further processing of that path
> > is skipped, for now.
> >
> > The issue was not so much finding the paths or processing them (both of
> > which are kind of nice in XSLT), as it was to not get tangled in a loop and
> > never get out of a (circular) path, in the network.
> >
> > Each node in the network is really a tree, as each "database model" record
> > is itself a document.
> > The network is not usually a complete network but could be and two adjacent
> > nodes can have multiple arcs between them.
> >
> > The "database" contents change constantly, based on update requests,
> > sometimes fast, sometime slow.
> > Not all requests are for update but in any case (ie. read or read/write),
> > the network analysis has to be performed as inside and outside conditions
> > can change.
> >
> > Triggered by a request passing it a request parameter nodeset specifying
> > the required processing conditions, source, targets, etc., used throughout
> > the traversal, the analysis currently does a single pass forward traversal
> > of the required paths without any back axis access.  Also, a node is never
> > processed twice.
> >
> > Currently, as the traversal progresses nothing is changed in the network
> > but some information is accumulated in a variable, using assign, and the
> > traversal process further refers to this variable as it
> > progresses.  Currently the "analysis" model variable is a single string and
> > referral to it uses regular expressions.
> >  >
> >
> >
> > Do you understand this ?  Is this not what you want ?  What are you looking
> > for ?  Do you have questions ?
> >
> > To me, it seems that we are looking at non-trivial language design and
> > solution design issues, affecting common but non-trivial problems, and that
> > we are also doing this through email.  I could not say if this needs a more
> > formal and structured setting or not, but at least we should take great
> > care not to loose focus, if we are to achieve anything.  I do not feel that
> > I have a problem that needs a solution, I am only looking at the future of
> > XSLT and Saxon, because I like them, use them, think about them, and am
> > ready to contribute whatever I can. I have plenty of other pressing issues
> > to deal with, but still I am offering my view and time, if it doesn't
> > offend anyone.
> >
> > I do not have code to submit and I can't submit this company's application
> > code or operation data.  I understand the problems and concepts though.  If
> > someone needs code or data someone will have to find a way to produce it,
> > but first, I feel that there is some ground to break and that a lot
> > can/should be done conceptually, given a real existing use case.  Don't you
> > think ?  Or is it just code that you want ?  How long would you like to
> > spend looking at 25k lines of XSLT to figure out if you can do it without
> > assign?
> >
> > Thank you.
> > Andre
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
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