Re: Template recursion, StackOverflowError, saxon:while a nd variable assignability

> I do not have code to submit and I can't submit this company's application
> code or operation data.  I understand the problems and concepts though.  If
> someone needs code or data someone will have to find a way to produce it,
> but first, I feel that there is some ground to break and that a lot
> can/should be done conceptually, given a real existing use case.  Don't you
> think ?  Or is it just code that you want ?  How long would you like to
> spend looking at 25k lines of XSLT to figure out if you can do it without
> assign?
> 
> Thank you.
> Andre

Hi Andre,

Thank you for repeating once again the broad description of your system.

And also thank you for the invitation to try to re-create your
environment from this broad description in order to try to confirm and
then solve the problem you have with attempting to produce an XSLT
solution.

This proposal doesn't need any comments...

At this point we have established the fact that you are unable to
describe and reproduce your problem in a concise and compact way.

This makes it very probable that the real problem is not at all in the
choice of language (XSLT or XSLT + saxon:assign, or any other
programming language) but that the real problem is the complexity of
your system.

Such problems are best addressed at other forums, dealing with systems
architecture.

Let me once again confirm my interest and willingnes to help with any
XSLT or algorithmic problem -- what initially I thought you had.

Let me apologize that in xsl-list and in the saxon-help mailing list
we are accustomed to a much greater degree of preciseness, which is
usually a good pre-condition of being able to define, understand and
solve a problem.

Thanks,
Dimitre.



On 6/18/05, Andre Cusson <ac-ncSKzJSyWVNl57MIdRCFDg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi Dimitre,
> 
> At 23:22 2005-06-17, you wrote:
> >On 6/18/05, Andre Cusson <ac-ncSKzJSyWVNl57MIdRCFDg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > We seem to be on different planets.
> >
> >   Definitely.
> 
> Hey, some common ground already ...
> 
> OK, let me try to land closer.
> 
> First, while hoping not to bother you or anyone, a few extracts from
> previous messages in the "Template recursion, StackOverflowError,
> saxon:while a nd variable assignability" track, some from answers to
> questions not presented here as the focus here is on defining a problem to
> solve, in an alternate way, as a generalization  from an issue already
> tackled and solved using assign, this time in a non-assign way
> ...  Cool!  So here are a few sentences that could have got lost in the noise:
> 
> 
> <
> Just from memory I would say that typically they are global accumulators
> that maintain some form of changing status maintained and shared by
> multiple processes, and changing over time, for example, real-time
> streaming security analysis, in parallel processing pipelines, over graphs
> of potentially billions of nodes (that you would not want to copy over too
> often, especially on-line), 24/7, with a large number of users (ex: 120 000
> 000/week).
> 
> The graph is a (generic) capacity network (multi-digraph) and one of the
> tasks, for example, is to follow every path between node A and node B,
> weighting the arcs and processing, while not getting tangled in a loop,
> very quickly, very often, on possibly huge graphs, all in XSLT.  No
> (significant) heuristics are currently used, only plain crunching, and
> saxon:assign.  Of course, as paths are traversed and processed, some may be
> found to be uninteresting at the time and further processing of that path
> is skipped, for now.
> 
> The issue was not so much finding the paths or processing them (both of
> which are kind of nice in XSLT), as it was to not get tangled in a loop and
> never get out of a (circular) path, in the network.
> 
> Each node in the network is really a tree, as each "database model" record
> is itself a document.
> The network is not usually a complete network but could be and two adjacent
> nodes can have multiple arcs between them.
> 
> The "database" contents change constantly, based on update requests,
> sometimes fast, sometime slow.
> Not all requests are for update but in any case (ie. read or read/write),
> the network analysis has to be performed as inside and outside conditions
> can change.
> 
> Triggered by a request passing it a request parameter nodeset specifying
> the required processing conditions, source, targets, etc., used throughout
> the traversal, the analysis currently does a single pass forward traversal
> of the required paths without any back axis access.  Also, a node is never
> processed twice.
> 
> Currently, as the traversal progresses nothing is changed in the network
> but some information is accumulated in a variable, using assign, and the
> traversal process further refers to this variable as it
> progresses.  Currently the "analysis" model variable is a single string and
> referral to it uses regular expressions.
>  >
> 
> 
> Do you understand this ?  Is this not what you want ?  What are you looking
> for ?  Do you have questions ?
> 
> To me, it seems that we are looking at non-trivial language design and
> solution design issues, affecting common but non-trivial problems, and that
> we are also doing this through email.  I could not say if this needs a more
> formal and structured setting or not, but at least we should take great
> care not to loose focus, if we are to achieve anything.  I do not feel that
> I have a problem that needs a solution, I am only looking at the future of
> XSLT and Saxon, because I like them, use them, think about them, and am
> ready to contribute whatever I can. I have plenty of other pressing issues
> to deal with, but still I am offering my view and time, if it doesn't
> offend anyone.
> 
> I do not have code to submit and I can't submit this company's application
> code or operation data.  I understand the problems and concepts though.  If
> someone needs code or data someone will have to find a way to produce it,
> but first, I feel that there is some ground to break and that a lot
> can/should be done conceptually, given a real existing use case.  Don't you
> think ?  Or is it just code that you want ?  How long would you like to
> spend looking at 25k lines of XSLT to figure out if you can do it without
> assign?
> 
> Thank you.
> Andre
> 
> 
> 
> 
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