RE: Dutch IJ character

AAMOF, one can type Ç and ç using the US-International keyboard layout by
pressing 'C and 'c. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Ewell [mailto:dewell@xxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Monday, 28 April 2003 15:06
To: Thomas Milo; unicode@xxxxxxxxxxx; unicore@xxxxxxxxxxx; Peter Constable
Cc: Chris Pratley; Gert-Jan Johannes; Gerard Unger
Subject: Re: Dutch IJ character


Thomas Milo <t dot milo at chello dot nl> wrote:

> What I did ask for is a Dutch-International kbd with all the features 
> of the US-International one, but tailored for Dutch by the addition of 
> ,C > c-cedilla and I+J > IJ using the same dead key mechanism.

The US-International keyboard already has a way to enter Ç
(Shift+AltGr+,) and ç (AltGr+,).  Those AltGr keys really aren't that bad.
You get used to them, and they don't have the drawback that normal sequences
can no longer be typed without an intervening space.

A dead-key sequence where "," (comma) is the first character sounds
difficult to use.  Since most commas in ordinary text are followed by a
space, the typist would have to type TWO spaces after the comma much of the
time to avoid accidental composition.  Likewise, "I" as a dead key would
cause an annoying delay after every "I" is typed.  And asking the major
vendors to completely overhaul the standard dead-key mechanism to use
backspace-and-replace seems like, as Thomas might say, a non-starter.

BTW, this thread marks the first time I've ever heard that Ç/ç is used in
Dutch.  Michael Everson doesn't list it in his "Alphabets of Europe."

> Here in the NL popular publications advise Dutch users to avoid using 
> the Dutch kbd, and to select Locale= Dutch and KBD=US-International 
> instead to avoid the hardware mismatch (real or imaginary) associated 
> with the Dutch Kbd.

You mean that because the Dutch use American hardware, the standard Dutch
keyboard driver (which has an @-sign on key E00 and a slash on key
E11) doesn't match the keycaps?  Fine, then there's nothing wrong with the
idea of creating a new Dutch national keyboard layout.

I'd still like to know what key on Dutch typewriters was assigned to the IJ
digraph.  If the answer is "none, they just type I and J," then everything
can still be accomplished in the computer age without the precomposed
digraph.

> I am not fully convinced IJ should be treated as digraph. The glitch 
> is that it capitalizes as a whole, and that older users try to emulate 
> it with Y. And, it cannot be broken apart so that ICE CREAM on a 
> corner shop is
>
> IJ
> S
>
> never
>
> I
> J
> S
>
> And, the telephone directories put IJ and Y in the same sorting 
> position.

All of this can be accomplished with appropriate locale-dependent settings
instead of character encoding.  (Sorry for using the L word.)

-Doug Ewell
 Fullerton, California
 http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/