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Subject: Re: "new-babel", was: Ancient Greek hyphenation - msg#00178

List: tex.xetex

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Hi all,

I'm just subscribed after a private message from Will.

[Will]
> Indeed...And anyone thinking of doing this should talk first with
> Javier Bezos, whose Mem (nee Lambda) package for Omega is designed
> for such a thing. The package is not available for XeTeX, but he's
> thought more about the problems than anyone.

Well, there are other people who have thought about
those problems. But thanks, anyway :-). (And actually
née polyglot.)

[Alexey]
> Well, my Antomega package does just the same thing, and I think it
> is better than Mem at many aspects :)

Right. After all, Mem is experimental while Antomega is
intended for actual use.

> However, there is a serious difference between Omega and XeTeX. With
> Omega most language-specific features have to be implemented using
> Omega's translation processes (OCP). These translation processes are
> very powerful by itself, but they have their own specifics: in
> particular, in order to use OCP's effectively, we usually should avoid
> TeX active characters in the input stream. For this reason Antomega
> focused mainly on adapting OCP's for those tasks where active characters
> have been traditionally used (e. g. Babel shorthands), so that
> OCP-related stuff actually represented the main part of the whole
> package.

The same can be said (more or less) about Mem, but
its aims are a lot broader in scope. In fact, Mem
began without OCPs at all and as a pure LaTeX package
named polyglot (to overcome the serious limitations
of babel), then adapted to Omega as Lambda and and
then adapted to Aleph as Mem. But what Mem intends
can be summarized in two words -- localization and
customization. Can it be adapted to XeTeX? I think
so. And to LuaTeX? Why not? So, it is essentially a
project in search of the right (or stable) driver ;-).

For more on Mem, please, see:

http://mem-latex.sourceforge.net/

Javier

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Re: "new-babel", was: Ancient Greek hyphenation

On 24 Apr, 2007, at 03:18 , Yves Codet wrote: > > Le 24 avr. 07 à 00:57, Bruno Voisin a écrit : > >> [...] >> There are other minute differences (which are less and less of an >> admitted norm though) in French typography: >> >> - All paragraphs start with an indentation, including those following >> immediately chapter and section titles. >> >> - Dashes in text (used to denote asides, like parentheses): in French >> (I think) we use en-dashes, not em-dashes, and they're separated from >> the surrounding text by spaces, as in -- aside 1 -- and not---aside >> 1---as in the TeXbook. >> >> And so forth. Not even to speak about lists. >> >> But entering these territories things are all but commonly admitted, >> and we're succumbing to what I precisely don't like with babel -- its >> insistence on imposing supposed norms on the author. > > I quite agree with this. Most of Babel's norms for French (except > indentation of the first paragraph of a section, perhaps) should be > left to the author of the document, and if he doesn't care about > French typography it's his concern, as well as his good or bad > relationship with his teacher or editor. Please consider foreigners! When preparing a book for my publishing house, if the author has an epigraph in French, for example, I want to be able to write \begin{otherlanguage}{french} and have it with the proper French typographical rules; and if there is a book in German in the bibliography, I want to say \begin{otherlanguage} {german} (or ngerman) and have it hyphenated properly. Best, Axel

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Re: xdvipdfmx broken on Windows Vista?

Le 24 avr. 07 à 01:14, Bruno Voisin a écrit : > Le 24 avr. 07 à 00:45, Jonathan Kew a écrit : > >>> --with-pnglib-libdir=/usr/local/lib >>> --with-pnglib-include=/usr/local/libpng12 >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> Is this a typing error? Surely it should be /usr/local/include/ >> libpng12. > > It was an error indeed. Given the binary libpng installs using > Apple's Installer, I cannot uninstall it now, unfortunately, to test > whether the i-Installer version, together with the above options, are > enough to allow the compilation of xdvipdfmx. Just tried that finally, after uninstalling all the .dylib elements installed by libpng-universal.pkg from <http://ethan.tira- thompson.com/Mac%20OS%20X%20Ports.html>, namely: libpng.3.16.0.dylib libpng.3.dylib -> libpng.3.16.0.dylib libpng.dylib -> libpng.3.16.0.dylib libpng12.0.16.0.dylib libpng12.0.dylib -> libpng12.0.16.0.dylib libpng12.dylib -> libpng12.0.16.0.dylib These elements turn out to be the only difference with the i- Installer i-Package, other than the version (1.2.16 for libpng- universal.pkg, older for i-Installer). Alas, running: $ sh configure --with-kpathsea=/usr/local/gwTeX --with-ft2lib=/usr/local/lib/libfreetype.a --with-ft2include=/usr/local/include/freetype2 --with-pnglib-libdir=/usr/local/lib --with-pnglib-include=/usr/local/include/libpng12 --bindir=/usr/texbin leads to the same failure at the make stage: make still wants /usr/ local/lib/libpng12.dylib. Motivated by these problems of dependencies, I had another look at MacPorts. As it happens, they have portfiles for XeTeX and xdvipdfmx: <http://trac.macports.org/projects/macports/browser/trunk/dports/tex> Alas again, all things TeX in MacPorts seem to rely on teTeX 3. For xdvipdfmx: depends_lib lib:libkpathsea:teTeX lib:libpng:libpng lib:libz:zlib port:expat port:fontconfig port:freetype port:dvipdfmx and for xetex: depends_lib port:teTeX port:xdvipdfmx Hence MacPorts doesn't seem to be able to play nice with MacTeX. Bruno Voisin

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Re: "new-babel", was: Ancient Greek hyphenation

On 4/23/07, François Charette <firmicus-CgV2T0zjiNHR7s880joybQ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Apostolos Syropoulos wrote: > > > > I am sure we can come up with a name, maybe polyglotta... > > Nice! But I would opt for *polyglossia*. Or perhaps (for the latinists): > multiloquus or linguosus (meaning prolix, loquacious)? ... OK, I'm not > serious here :-) Let's keep that discussion aside until "we" (whatever > that means) come up with a real "post-babel" package. On the contrary, I think choosing a name early will help us avoid calling it "xbabel" without thinking about it. The more I think about it, though, the more I like the idea of adapting mem or antomega to suit our purposes. Looking *very* briefly, I like the look of mem slightly more due to its incorporation already of modules for breaking up functionality (strings vs. languages vs. dates) and how it allows for macros, etc., that differ with language. I think it would be a *bad idea* to run into this project without making sure that one of these packages isn't what we want already. I'll try and get hold of Javier Bezos again to see what his movements are regarding mem. Will

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Re: "new-babel", was: Ancient Greek hyphenation

i have read many messages all these days and I think we need a summary of features need for a XeLaTeX version of the babel package. First, it seems it is necessary to translate all the LaTeX strings. Next, we need to define dates and of course numbering. In the Greek language we are not using the Latin letters in enumerations. And then of course we need to "load"/"unload" hyphenation patterns. Now, it seems to me that we need to seperate fonts from this package; fontspec does an excellent work and so there is no reason to reinvent... fontspec. Also, the system should enable/disable various typographic features. Anything else? Apostolos PS If this is too minimal for some, it is ok for a start. **************************************************************** *Apostolos Syropoulos * *snail mail: 366, 28th October Str., GR-671 00 Xanthi, HELLAS * *email : asyropoulos (at) yahoo (dot) com * *phone num.: +30-2541-028704 * *home page : http://obelix.ee.duth.gr/~apostolo * **************************************************************** ___________________________________________________________ Χρησιμοποιείτε Yahoo!; Βαρεθήκατε τα ενοχλητικά μηνύματα (spam); Το Yahoo! Mail διαθέτει την καλύτερη δυνατή προστασία κατά των ενοχλητικών μηνυμάτων http://login.yahoo.com/config/mail?.intl=gr _______________________________________________ XeTeX mailing list postmaster@xxxxxxx http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex

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