Re: Who should use (La)TeX - who is able to use it?

To: Schremmer, in particular, but also (perhaps, especially) to those 
(it seems to me) on the list  who want to improve TeX and LaTeX before 
suffering to learn it:
I have been following much of what comes on this list, and it is 
tiring. Too many people are critical and are trying to make TeX and 
LaTeX simple without learning the rules of these very unique 
typesetting (Knuth, etal) applications.
I am approaching my mid-eighties, and I still use TeX/LaTeX --- NOW 
with a certain measure of confidence. I have a problem; but will 
present it later. First, ...
Ten years ago (maybe slightly more) I started on a book --- with Word.  
My son said, "Dad, use TeX or LaTeX."  So, he being a good son looking 
out for my interest, I tried LaTeX (a la TeXTures --- BlueSky). AND, 
that's when I started tearing my hair out, and, I confess,  even worse.
After a month or so, I called Ben, and said, "I'm going back to Word, I 
can't learn this wretched typesetting code stuff --- I'll never finish 
anything."
He said, "Dad, PLEASE, stick with it; you'll be SO glad you did."
Well, I DID stick with it. And I am VERY GLAD I did. I got the book 
done. I furnished all 400+ pages, which included a lot of mathematics 
along with well over 100 rather complicated figures, all drawn by me 
--- all of it, CAMERA READY, to Princeton University Press. The book 
came out in hardcover, and after a couple printings, they decided to do 
a paperback, which is still doing very well. It is now, at least, in 
its 5th printing (to me, unbelievable). 'Never would have happened in 
Word.
The ENTIRE BOOK (on: Quaternions) WAS DONE USING LATEX (Textures).

But now my problem: TeXTures doesn't work on Mac OSX 10.3.6, and 
recent. I'm in the process of changing to TeXShop (appreciating much 
help from Dick Koch).  I would again like to use \include and 
\includeonly when doing individual chapters of the book. And also, I'm 
trying to find an easy way to manage and include all the figures I 
choose to have in this text. I do not want to go back to Mac OS 9, or 
earlier.

I thank and congratulate the many learned folk on this list who give 
help on topics specific to TeXShop and LaTeX.  I am using TeXShop 1.35e 
and would like to convert all TeXTures code and figures to Mac OSX 
(panther). Any suggestions?

Jack Kuipers
PS: I apologize for spleen venting.

On Nov 15, 2004, at 9:05 PM, Alain Schremmer wrote:

> Just as a counter-example, I am in my (very late) sixties, "generally 
> hate MS and love Linux, for philosophical reasons. Speak openly about 
> Macs, [am] quite excited about it".
> I also love open source in general and LaTeX in particular for 
> philosophical reasons
> OK, I still have to learn to love Terminal.
> Regards
> --schremmer
>
> Bruno Voisin wrote:
>
> > Le 15 nov. 04, à 22:44, Gerben Wierda a écrit :
> >
> > > This is indeed a generic point. I noticed too that Mac users were 
> > > very negative about the change to Mac OS X.
> >
> >
> > I noticed the same, long-term Mac users refusing for as long as 
> > possible to migrate from OS 9 to OS X. But I've the impression things 
> > are now evolving, with a new "generation" of users coming, having 
> > discovered the Mac with OS X, and with former switchers from Windows 
> > or Mac OS to Linux getting tired of compatibility issues and 
> > realizing OS X offers Unix with polish and ease of use on top. I've 
> > just managed to make a convert of the second sort, he's ordered his 
> > PowerBook 15" today :)
> >
> > I would say what I'm seeing now at work can be grossly classified as:
> >
> > - People in their fifties and sixties: don't feel as much pressure as 
> > they used to, have enough funding to buy what they like, favour ease 
> > of use and comfort, can afford to spend a bit of time learning a new 
> > OS. For some of them that means a Mac with OS X.
> >
> > - People in their thirties or fourties: lots of stress, fights to get 
> > funding, shortage of time, which generally implies Windows for 
> > maximum interoperability, no learning curve (everybody has had to use 
> > Windows at school) and cheap hardware, or Linux for philosophical 
> > reasons and cheap hardware. Not many Mac users among these people, 
> > except a few of us resisting.
> >
> > - People in their twenties: generally hate MS and love Linux, for 
> > philosophical reasons. Speak openly about Macs, are quite excited 
> > about it and would love to get one should they get money for it. See 
> > Mac positively, as Unix with polish and ease of use on top, see 
> > Terminal.app as a way to have fun (= the possibility to hack the core 
> > OS) rather than stress, have all played with Fink and use it 
> > extensively. None of them have the 80s pictures of the Mac as a toy, 
> > not to be considered seriously. Possibly the iPod effect, the fact 
> > that Macs are now a part of lifestyle, something you're proud of and 
> > no longer ashamed of.
> >
> > It's an all subjective picture, of course.
> >
> > Bruno Voisin
> >
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--------------------- Info ---------------------
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          & FAQ: http://latex.yauh.de/faq/
TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
List Post: <mailto:MacOSX-TeX-yNUTs0qEFpZ/1wmUHrjjoYdd74u8MsAO@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>