Subject: Re: [Intlwiki-l] Language.php translations needed for each UseMod Wikipedia - msg#00036

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[Intlwiki-l] French Wikipedia in trouble?

Hi Anthere! > 4. I am currently saying *if*, as, to be honest, I > really don't feel like it right now. The french wiki > is currently a battle field. People don't exchange > insults, but it is hardly better. We are now hosting a > sort of hydra with 6 (soon 7) heads (that is, Mulot > with her friends, they decided to call themselves "the > Six"). There is no reason to ban them as they decided > to begin their own project within wiki, not to change > or delete others articles as they did sooner. Within the french Wikipedia? Sounds like enough reason for a banning to me, because it's a kind of vandalism (if their project goal isn't creating an NPOV encyclopedia, of course). > Discussions ? oh yes there are. endless discussions. > Mostly hurtful, agressive, and reproachful. Not very > fruitful discussions to say the least. And I am sick > of it really. Apparently not the only one thinking of > giving up. So, it may be extremely coward, but I think > I'm gonna leave the others decide which directions to > take between war and peace and give it break. It's > sad. It sounds really sad. The problem is, with every bad article the French (or any other) Wikipedia it becomes less attractive to new contributors. I think much of the success of the English Wp came from the fact, that they started with many good educated contributors, mostly from Nupedia I guess. Good articles attract educated contributors. So if things are getting worse in the French Wikipedia something should be done, before there's too much mess and nobody is motivated enough to tidy it up. That was my fear for a long time in the German Wikipedia: three or four guys who want to take over the project to make it an XYZ-POV encyclopedia, but not an NPOV one, and being not enough people to defend it. I think we have now reached the point where enough people care for the project, and it's growing on it's own. For a business it would be called the break even point I guess. That's a good feeling. > Well, that's not your problem and you can't do > anything, that's our problem to solve, but I thought > the international wikis should know the fr.wiki is > meeting difficult times. I'm sorry that I don't speak French very well (I nearly had to repeat a class level because of my French grade). But you should call for help on wikipedia-l and maybe also on usenet. If you describe the problems further I could also ask for help on deutsch-l, the German Wikipedia mailinglist. Kurt

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Re: [Intlwiki-l] Language.php translations needed for each UseMod Wikipedia

--- Anthere <anthere5-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > 4. I am currently saying *if*, as, to be honest, I > really don't feel like it right now. The french wiki > is currently a battle field. People don't exchange > insults, but it is hardly better. We are now hosting > a > sort of hydra with 6 (soon 7) heads (that is, Mulot > with her friends, they decided to call themselves > "the > Six"). "The Six". Interesting... > There is no reason to ban them as they > decided > to begin their own project within wiki, not to > change > or delete others articles as they did sooner. > Discussions ? oh yes there are. endless discussions. > Mostly hurtful, agressive, and reproachful. Not very > fruitful discussions to say the least. And I am sick > of it really. Apparently not the only one thinking > of > giving up. So, it may be extremely coward, but I > think > I'm gonna leave the others decide which directions > to > take between war and peace and give it break. It's > sad. Anthere, what kind of project have they started within fr.wikipedia? Is it of any value to the encyclopedia, or is it entirely separate? If the latter, has it been suggested to them that they would be better served by their *own* wiki that they control? They can set one up for free at http://www.swiki.net or http://www.seedwiki.com. Also, I know Jimbo has offered to host wikis, at least temporarily, for people that have a project in mind that doesn't quite fit with Wikipedia goals. If you think they might listen better to an outsider, I could try pitching it to them. My Canadian French is a little rusty, but my wife could help me. :) Stephen Gilbert __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute

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[Intlwiki-l] French Wikipedia in trouble?

Hi Anthere! > 4. I am currently saying *if*, as, to be honest, I > really don't feel like it right now. The french wiki > is currently a battle field. People don't exchange > insults, but it is hardly better. We are now hosting a > sort of hydra with 6 (soon 7) heads (that is, Mulot > with her friends, they decided to call themselves "the > Six"). There is no reason to ban them as they decided > to begin their own project within wiki, not to change > or delete others articles as they did sooner. Within the french Wikipedia? Sounds like enough reason for a banning to me, because it's a kind of vandalism (if their project goal isn't creating an NPOV encyclopedia, of course). > Discussions ? oh yes there are. endless discussions. > Mostly hurtful, agressive, and reproachful. Not very > fruitful discussions to say the least. And I am sick > of it really. Apparently not the only one thinking of > giving up. So, it may be extremely coward, but I think > I'm gonna leave the others decide which directions to > take between war and peace and give it break. It's > sad. It sounds really sad. The problem is, with every bad article the French (or any other) Wikipedia it becomes less attractive to new contributors. I think much of the success of the English Wp came from the fact, that they started with many good educated contributors, mostly from Nupedia I guess. Good articles attract educated contributors. So if things are getting worse in the French Wikipedia something should be done, before there's too much mess and nobody is motivated enough to tidy it up. That was my fear for a long time in the German Wikipedia: three or four guys who want to take over the project to make it an XYZ-POV encyclopedia, but not an NPOV one, and being not enough people to defend it. I think we have now reached the point where enough people care for the project, and it's growing on it's own. For a business it would be called the break even point I guess. That's a good feeling. > Well, that's not your problem and you can't do > anything, that's our problem to solve, but I thought > the international wikis should know the fr.wiki is > meeting difficult times. I'm sorry that I don't speak French very well (I nearly had to repeat a class level because of my French grade). But you should call for help on wikipedia-l and maybe also on usenet. If you describe the problems further I could also ask for help on deutsch-l, the German Wikipedia mailinglist. Kurt

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Re: [Intlwiki-l] Language.php translations needed for each UseMod Wikipedia

--- Anthere <anthere5-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > 4. I am currently saying *if*, as, to be honest, I > really don't feel like it right now. The french wiki > is currently a battle field. People don't exchange > insults, but it is hardly better. We are now hosting > a > sort of hydra with 6 (soon 7) heads (that is, Mulot > with her friends, they decided to call themselves > "the > Six"). "The Six". Interesting... > There is no reason to ban them as they > decided > to begin their own project within wiki, not to > change > or delete others articles as they did sooner. > Discussions ? oh yes there are. endless discussions. > Mostly hurtful, agressive, and reproachful. Not very > fruitful discussions to say the least. And I am sick > of it really. Apparently not the only one thinking > of > giving up. So, it may be extremely coward, but I > think > I'm gonna leave the others decide which directions > to > take between war and peace and give it break. It's > sad. Anthere, what kind of project have they started within fr.wikipedia? Is it of any value to the encyclopedia, or is it entirely separate? If the latter, has it been suggested to them that they would be better served by their *own* wiki that they control? They can set one up for free at http://www.swiki.net or http://www.seedwiki.com. Also, I know Jimbo has offered to host wikis, at least temporarily, for people that have a project in mind that doesn't quite fit with Wikipedia goals. If you think they might listen better to an outsider, I could try pitching it to them. My Canadian French is a little rusty, but my wife could help me. :) Stephen Gilbert __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute