Subject: [Global Change: 2814] Re: Join the "No Meat Campaign" and help stop global warming! - msg#00044

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[Global Change: 2813] Re: Join the "No Meat Campaign" and help stop global warming!

Michael Tobis wrote: > This has been sitting in the queue for a week, none of the mods being > willing to let it through on one hand or flush it on the other. I let it > through because although there's a bit of PR puffery here, it raises an > interesting question. > > How many meat-eaters can the earth support vs vegans? Does the > availability of resources for meat animals or other animal protein (in > other words, that ovo and lacto stuff) ever become a limiting resource? > > I have given up red meat, reluctantly, for multiple reasons. My > abstinence has not been perfect but I won't bring the stuff home. I do > think this is a real issue. While I agree that in general (on average) meat has a substantial environmental footprint, it is worth remembering that at least some of it is reasonably sound. There is upland pasture in the UK that isn't much use for anything other than sheep, for example (or deer/grouse, but that is basically leisure use with a small meat output as byproduct). Also, mixed farming is very much in the traditional organic low-input mold, with the animal manure providing fertiliser for the crops. Note that meat is an inevitable by-product of the dairy industry - if you eat milk, butter and cheese and leave the meat you just force someone else to eat it. Not that I'm complaining, you understand... And as far as energy eficiency goes, I don't have the figures to hand but am sure that I read somewhere that eggs, cheese and tomatoes have a worse input/output ratio than pork or chicken. In fact it was surprising to me to see how poor the energy ratios were for vegetarian food - a consequence of the fossil-fuel intensive farming methods, although no doubt this will change with fuel costs. > > Here's more on the subject: > > http://bravenewclimate.com/2008/08/11/australias-most-powerful-climate-forcing-agent-its-not-coal/ > http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/mark_bittman_on_what_s_wrong_with_what_we_eat.html I haven't watched the video but am generally sanguine about methane. It only has a short lifetime and isn't increasing like the standard projections anticipated it should. It is certainly not the long-term problem that CO2 is. As far as I'm concerned, if it becomes a problem, then our grandchildren can give up eating beef! (Or more plausibly, develop ways of reducing emissions - even normal animal husbandry has a significant influence, and it is not too speculative to expect that 21st century bioengineering could make a substantial contribution here. Note that methane emissions represent a waste of energy, so there is a direct economic benefit in reducing them.) Of course these days I mostly eat fish rather than meat... James

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[Global Change: 2815] Re: Join the "No Meat Campaign" and help stop global warming!

The EDF gives us 3 million car-equivalent less credits for one extra veggie meal per week than does Julia's link: http://www.edf.org/article.cfm?contentid=6604 I nothing wrong with these ideas but... I would guess the the average American might do more good for GW by stopping air leaks in their home by caulking, redoing weather-stripping on window and doors, checking the ducts for leaks. I would like to have a good *prioritized* list of things to do on a personal level. Nice to hit the biggies first. On Aug 15, 1:12 am, "Michael Tobis" <mto...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > This has been sitting in the queue for a week, none of the mods being > willing to let it through on one hand or flush it on the other. I let it > through because although there's a bit of PR puffery here, it raises an > interesting question. > > How many meat-eaters can the earth support vs vegans? Does the availability > of resources for meat animals or other animal protein (in other words, that > ovo and lacto stuff) ever become a limiting resource? > > I have given up red meat, reluctantly, for multiple reasons. My abstinence > has not been perfect but I won't bring the stuff home. I do think this is a > real issue. > > Here's more on the subject: > > http://bravenewclimate.com/2008/08/11/australias-most-powerful-climat...http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/mark_bittman_on_what_s_wrong_with_... > > mt > > > > On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Julia <jollyh...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > Did you know that if every American who eats meat daily decided to > > have one meat-free day a week, it would be the equivalent of taking 8 > > million cars off the roads? > > > • Animal agriculture causes about 18% of global human-induced green- > > house gas emissions > > > • Livestock produce 30-40% of total methane gas emissions > > > • Livestock occupy 30 percent of ice-free land on the planet, a major > > cause of deforestation > > > • Industrial meat production relies heavily on fossil fuels through > > fertilizer manufacturing and global transport > > > The emerging global warming crisis requires both personal change and > > industrial accountability. In addition to energy conservation, each of > > us can also limit our contribution to global warming by eating less > > meat and calling for a more sustainable livestock industry. > > > The goal of this one-week meat-fast is to provide a platform to raise > > awareness about how meat-consumption directly contributes to climate > > change. > > > Learn more, discuss with others, and take action now at: > > >http://www.thepoint.com/campaigns/no-meat-week-help-stop-global-warming- > >Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -

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[Global Change: 2813] Re: Join the "No Meat Campaign" and help stop global warming!

Michael Tobis wrote: > This has been sitting in the queue for a week, none of the mods being > willing to let it through on one hand or flush it on the other. I let it > through because although there's a bit of PR puffery here, it raises an > interesting question. > > How many meat-eaters can the earth support vs vegans? Does the > availability of resources for meat animals or other animal protein (in > other words, that ovo and lacto stuff) ever become a limiting resource? > > I have given up red meat, reluctantly, for multiple reasons. My > abstinence has not been perfect but I won't bring the stuff home. I do > think this is a real issue. While I agree that in general (on average) meat has a substantial environmental footprint, it is worth remembering that at least some of it is reasonably sound. There is upland pasture in the UK that isn't much use for anything other than sheep, for example (or deer/grouse, but that is basically leisure use with a small meat output as byproduct). Also, mixed farming is very much in the traditional organic low-input mold, with the animal manure providing fertiliser for the crops. Note that meat is an inevitable by-product of the dairy industry - if you eat milk, butter and cheese and leave the meat you just force someone else to eat it. Not that I'm complaining, you understand... And as far as energy eficiency goes, I don't have the figures to hand but am sure that I read somewhere that eggs, cheese and tomatoes have a worse input/output ratio than pork or chicken. In fact it was surprising to me to see how poor the energy ratios were for vegetarian food - a consequence of the fossil-fuel intensive farming methods, although no doubt this will change with fuel costs. > > Here's more on the subject: > > http://bravenewclimate.com/2008/08/11/australias-most-powerful-climate-forcing-agent-its-not-coal/ > http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/mark_bittman_on_what_s_wrong_with_what_we_eat.html I haven't watched the video but am generally sanguine about methane. It only has a short lifetime and isn't increasing like the standard projections anticipated it should. It is certainly not the long-term problem that CO2 is. As far as I'm concerned, if it becomes a problem, then our grandchildren can give up eating beef! (Or more plausibly, develop ways of reducing emissions - even normal animal husbandry has a significant influence, and it is not too speculative to expect that 21st century bioengineering could make a substantial contribution here. Note that methane emissions represent a waste of energy, so there is a direct economic benefit in reducing them.) Of course these days I mostly eat fish rather than meat... James

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[Global Change: 2815] Re: Join the "No Meat Campaign" and help stop global warming!

The EDF gives us 3 million car-equivalent less credits for one extra veggie meal per week than does Julia's link: http://www.edf.org/article.cfm?contentid=6604 I nothing wrong with these ideas but... I would guess the the average American might do more good for GW by stopping air leaks in their home by caulking, redoing weather-stripping on window and doors, checking the ducts for leaks. I would like to have a good *prioritized* list of things to do on a personal level. Nice to hit the biggies first. On Aug 15, 1:12 am, "Michael Tobis" <mto...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > This has been sitting in the queue for a week, none of the mods being > willing to let it through on one hand or flush it on the other. I let it > through because although there's a bit of PR puffery here, it raises an > interesting question. > > How many meat-eaters can the earth support vs vegans? Does the availability > of resources for meat animals or other animal protein (in other words, that > ovo and lacto stuff) ever become a limiting resource? > > I have given up red meat, reluctantly, for multiple reasons. My abstinence > has not been perfect but I won't bring the stuff home. I do think this is a > real issue. > > Here's more on the subject: > > http://bravenewclimate.com/2008/08/11/australias-most-powerful-climat...http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/mark_bittman_on_what_s_wrong_with_... > > mt > > > > On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Julia <jollyh...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > Did you know that if every American who eats meat daily decided to > > have one meat-free day a week, it would be the equivalent of taking 8 > > million cars off the roads? > > > • Animal agriculture causes about 18% of global human-induced green- > > house gas emissions > > > • Livestock produce 30-40% of total methane gas emissions > > > • Livestock occupy 30 percent of ice-free land on the planet, a major > > cause of deforestation > > > • Industrial meat production relies heavily on fossil fuels through > > fertilizer manufacturing and global transport > > > The emerging global warming crisis requires both personal change and > > industrial accountability. In addition to energy conservation, each of > > us can also limit our contribution to global warming by eating less > > meat and calling for a more sustainable livestock industry. > > > The goal of this one-week meat-fast is to provide a platform to raise > > awareness about how meat-consumption directly contributes to climate > > change. > > > Learn more, discuss with others, and take action now at: > > >http://www.thepoint.com/campaigns/no-meat-week-help-stop-global-warming- > >Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -