Re: Relocation of mailing list to Google Groups + rant

Daniel -

On 5/16/07, Daniel Leidert <daniel.leidert.spam-hi6Y0CQ0nG0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Am Mittwoch, den 16.05.2007, 05:29 -0700 schrieb Tobias Kind:

> Sanford wrote to move the mailing list to google groups.

I vote against this and the reasons are as easy: Google (groups) has
nothing to do with Open Source, Data or Standards and their services
also have technical problems (I don't want to blame them, but that's the
situation). If you are German, just read Michael Dahms FAQ for Google
Posters to get an impression of the limits of their News service. I
don't think, they have (a lot of) knowledge about the needs for
discussion forums for open source projects. So I personally think,
google groups is (currently) not an appropriate location for this
project. There are many other locations (like e.g. sf.net), which set
the stage for open source project development far better.

Actually, google has been a supporter of open source efforts for quite some time.  Their news service has nothing to do with the google groups, and they have been steadily improving this service (full disclosure: I am personal friends with the lead engineer at gGroups and was heavily involved with eGroups).
 

> I think thats *very important* to get some fresh air
> into the discussions and to invite more people to take part
> in certain developments. Easy access is the very first part.

I don't understand, why accessing a mailing list or a newsgroup shall be
a barrier for people wanting to join an (also) technically oriented
project? Why do you think, you wouldn't have the problem, when you host
the discussion forum via Google Groups service?

The reason is that gGroups allows for easy click-thru  joining - and offers other ways of joining WITHOUT having to become a member of google or google Accounts ( e.g.  you can add your email address to the list without signing up for google Accounts)

> People who are not programmers usually do not have a SF.net
> login

You don't need a sf.net account to sign into an sf.net mailing list or
to subscribe to a newsgroup. Also these mailing lists can be turned into
open lists, so even there is no need to subscribe then (but consider the
spam-problem for this case!).

With gGroups, you should be able to set moderation such that you have total control over who joins, who posts, etcetera.

> but 60-80% of the people have a google account.

Where do you want to know this? BTW: I do not have a Google account and
I do not plan to get one.

Absolutely no problem.

> I think the current state is that the whole Blue Obelisk Movement
> looks very closed (also due to the technical problems) and people
> get enough E-mail so having the whole list on google groups
> will generate easier access and more transparency.

There is already a Newsgroup gmane.science.chemistry.blue-obelisk on
Gmane.org (Gmane also mirrors a lot of sf.net mailing lists as
newsgroup) mirroring this list and AFAIK you can post to the Gmane.org
(mirrored) groups too (and their News2Mail interface then sends it to
the mailing list). I know this works for the Debian mailing lists.

By the way - you can also suggest ecircle.com or ecircle.de to create a full-featured service.  Mailman is very good as open source, but it does not have the flexibility of these other services.

[blog-rant removed, I wouldn't vote for blogs as list replacement]

Regards, Daniel

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