Subject: Re: Union stations (Toronto) - msg#00040

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Saint John Union Station

-----Original Message----- From: David Jeanes [mailto:david-hdScWBeTTC33fQ9qLvQP4Q@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:39 PM To: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [CanPassRail] Re: Union stations >Saint John Union Station was built by Canadian National but Canadian >Pacific tracks entered it from the west. I do not know how the station >operation was shared. When VIA took over, I think that the one mile of >track between CN to the east and CP to the west, was the first trackage >that VIA owned. Someone else may provide better information. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Saint John Union Station was closed in 1970 to make way for the new "Saint John Thruway". CP moved 3 miles west to a small waiting room and ticket counter in a new office building at the Dever Rd yard. The first timetable I have showing the "Atlantic" stopping here is Oct. 25, 1970. Around the same time (don't know the exact date) CN moved 2 miles east to a new more substantial station than CP's out along Rothesay Ave to serve their (and later VIA's) 2 "Railiners" a day to Moncton. And on June 1, 1971, the CP "Princess Of Acadia" Ferry terminal that had been downtown near the old Union Station site was moved about 3 miles across the harbour to West Saint John. The "Princess Of Acadia" Ferry extended CP's service across the Bay of Fundy to Digby, NS where you could connect to the DAR "Dayliner" to Halifax & Yarmouth. Talk about ease of connections now! In October 1979, VIA extended the "Atlantic" through Saint John to Halifax. The "new" CP & CN stations were closed and a new VIA station was constructed roughly on the site of the old Union Station. This was a new, small wood framed structure and was to have been temporary until something more substantial could be built. But it lasted 15 years until just months before the "Atlantic" was cancelled when a new brick building was opened. VIA might have owned the station track but the CN employees timetable of Oct. 1979 now identified this point as "Saint John" and the "new" CN station 2 miles east became a yard office. CP's employees timetable identified the new VIA station as "Mill Street" with "Saint John" remaining as the yard office at Dever Rd. There was always a CP-CN freight connection near the old Union Station site and it still remains today between the New Brunswick Southern and CN. Gary ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Tcy2bD/SOnJAA/cosFAA/8ZCslB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> For help, send an email to Canadian-Passenger-Rail-help-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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Re: Union stations (Ottawa et al.)

David Jeanes wrote: > and Ottawa Station (not Union Station) when new in 1966: I recently noticed that the April 1975 Canadian Pacific public timetable has a list entitled "Passenger Services | Services voyageurs", which gives the city name, location of the office, and phone numbers for CP ticket offices in 26 Canadian and three European cities. For most cities, the location is given as "CP Rail Stn.", but it says "Windsor Stn." for Montreal, "Palais Stn." for Quebec, and "Union Stn." for both Toronto and Ottawa. The CN timetable from that era has as similar list, entitled "Main Passenger Sales Offices -- Principaux Bureaux de Ventes Voyageurs". For most places, the listing says "CN Station", but it has "Central Station" for Montreal, "Palais Station" for Quebec, "Union Station" for Toronto, and "Ottawa Station" for Ottawa. So, at least in this one case, CP was calling the Ottawa station "Union Station", though CN was not. When CN and CP began issuing a joint timetable under the VIA name in October 1976, the CN format was adopted for these lists, but there separate lists on separate pages for the CN and CP offices. "Station" replaces "Stn." in the CP list, but it continued to say "Union Station" for Ottawa, while the CN list said "Ottawa Station". Palais had been closed by then, so the CP list said Quebec.....CP Rail Station while the CN list said Quebec (Ste-Foy).....CN Station Although CN trains still ran to Regina, that city was not included in the list of main CN offices, and in the CP list it was called "CP Rail Station", not Union Station. The Winnipeg stations were called "CN Station" and "CP Rail Station". The CN station was not called Union Station. The two lists were merged into one with the April 1978 timetable, but there were still separate CN and CP offices, so there were two entries with different phone numbers for many cities, even where the two railways shared a station. Edmonton, Halifax, Kamloops, Montreal, North Bay, Ottawa, Quebec, Saint John, Sherbrooke, Toronto, Vancouver, and Winnipeg had dual listings. Most of these had separate stations, and the listings usually say "CP Station" and "CN Station". The Ottawa listing for CP was changed from "Union Station" to "Ottawa Station" at this time, so Toronto is the only one explicitly called "Union Station". The Montreal CP listing says "CP Station", not "Windsor Station", though the CN listing still says "Central Station". The Halifax listings in April 1978 say "CN Station" and "CP Office". Of course there was only one station, and CP (Dominion Atlantic) just had running rights on CN -- I don't know if this CP office was in the CN station or not. In previous timetables the CP listing had said "Pier Office". Although all of the above timetables were bilingual, the station names were in English only, even for places in Quebec where anglophones were a tiny minority, e.g. "Trois-Rivières...CP Rail Station". Quebec City was listed as Palais, not Palace, but it was "Palais Stn.", not "Gare du Palais". This changed with the October 1978 timetable. Street addresses replaced station names in most cases, so Ottawa became "200 Tremblay". VIA had taken over ticket sales from CP, so only one entry was needed for Ottawa and Toronto, though many cities still had two stations in operation, so there were two listings, e.g. "1150 Station" and "Granville/Cordova" for Vancouver. There was no indication of which station was CN and which was CP. The list was also bilingualized at this time. In most cases, the use of the generic part of the street address was avoided, so you had "1150 Station" instead of "1150 Station St./1150, rue Station". For Montreal, the listings were "Gare Centrale/Central Stn." and "Gare Windsor/Windsor Stn." Earlier in this thread, it was said that "Union" wasn't used as a station name in French, but in the October 1978 list, Toronto appears as "Union Stn./Gare Union". This usage has continued to the present. For example, p. 88 of the May 2004 national timetable has a listing of a bus connection that says "Toronto (Union Stn./Gare Union)". Broadcasters on the local Radio-Canada radio and television stations routinely refer to "la gare Union". Although "union" is a perfectly good French word, I suppose an argument can be made that in this case it's a proper noun from English that's being used untranslated in French. Does anybody know of a generic term in French to describe a station jointly owned (or used) by more than one railway? Tom Box <tbox-HuFxiJqQPHPR7s880joybQ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> or <cz610-KuiJ5kEpwI52agKppZcdFSwD8/FfD2ys@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Toronto, ON, Canada ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Re: Vancouver Union Station

On 01/04/2005 19:16, "David Jeanes" <david-hdScWBeTTC33fQ9qLvQP4Q@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > and a trick picture from Vancouver in 1925: > The Canadian National (former Canadian Northern) Terminal Station is on the > right. The partial building on the left is the Union Station, (Great > Northern and Northern Pacific). Sorry the link was missing. http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/_images/common/photos/original/CN000155.jpg and a better shot which shows the name "Union Station": http://www.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/cgi-bin/www2i/.visual/img_med/dir_80/f_02636 .gif David Jeanes [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Rcy2bD/UOnJAA/cosFAA/8ZCslB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> For help, send an email to Canadian-Passenger-Rail-help-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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Re: Union stations (Ottawa et al.)

David Jeanes wrote: > and Ottawa Station (not Union Station) when new in 1966: I recently noticed that the April 1975 Canadian Pacific public timetable has a list entitled "Passenger Services | Services voyageurs", which gives the city name, location of the office, and phone numbers for CP ticket offices in 26 Canadian and three European cities. For most cities, the location is given as "CP Rail Stn.", but it says "Windsor Stn." for Montreal, "Palais Stn." for Quebec, and "Union Stn." for both Toronto and Ottawa. The CN timetable from that era has as similar list, entitled "Main Passenger Sales Offices -- Principaux Bureaux de Ventes Voyageurs". For most places, the listing says "CN Station", but it has "Central Station" for Montreal, "Palais Station" for Quebec, "Union Station" for Toronto, and "Ottawa Station" for Ottawa. So, at least in this one case, CP was calling the Ottawa station "Union Station", though CN was not. When CN and CP began issuing a joint timetable under the VIA name in October 1976, the CN format was adopted for these lists, but there separate lists on separate pages for the CN and CP offices. "Station" replaces "Stn." in the CP list, but it continued to say "Union Station" for Ottawa, while the CN list said "Ottawa Station". Palais had been closed by then, so the CP list said Quebec.....CP Rail Station while the CN list said Quebec (Ste-Foy).....CN Station Although CN trains still ran to Regina, that city was not included in the list of main CN offices, and in the CP list it was called "CP Rail Station", not Union Station. The Winnipeg stations were called "CN Station" and "CP Rail Station". The CN station was not called Union Station. The two lists were merged into one with the April 1978 timetable, but there were still separate CN and CP offices, so there were two entries with different phone numbers for many cities, even where the two railways shared a station. Edmonton, Halifax, Kamloops, Montreal, North Bay, Ottawa, Quebec, Saint John, Sherbrooke, Toronto, Vancouver, and Winnipeg had dual listings. Most of these had separate stations, and the listings usually say "CP Station" and "CN Station". The Ottawa listing for CP was changed from "Union Station" to "Ottawa Station" at this time, so Toronto is the only one explicitly called "Union Station". The Montreal CP listing says "CP Station", not "Windsor Station", though the CN listing still says "Central Station". The Halifax listings in April 1978 say "CN Station" and "CP Office". Of course there was only one station, and CP (Dominion Atlantic) just had running rights on CN -- I don't know if this CP office was in the CN station or not. In previous timetables the CP listing had said "Pier Office". Although all of the above timetables were bilingual, the station names were in English only, even for places in Quebec where anglophones were a tiny minority, e.g. "Trois-Rivières...CP Rail Station". Quebec City was listed as Palais, not Palace, but it was "Palais Stn.", not "Gare du Palais". This changed with the October 1978 timetable. Street addresses replaced station names in most cases, so Ottawa became "200 Tremblay". VIA had taken over ticket sales from CP, so only one entry was needed for Ottawa and Toronto, though many cities still had two stations in operation, so there were two listings, e.g. "1150 Station" and "Granville/Cordova" for Vancouver. There was no indication of which station was CN and which was CP. The list was also bilingualized at this time. In most cases, the use of the generic part of the street address was avoided, so you had "1150 Station" instead of "1150 Station St./1150, rue Station". For Montreal, the listings were "Gare Centrale/Central Stn." and "Gare Windsor/Windsor Stn." Earlier in this thread, it was said that "Union" wasn't used as a station name in French, but in the October 1978 list, Toronto appears as "Union Stn./Gare Union". This usage has continued to the present. For example, p. 88 of the May 2004 national timetable has a listing of a bus connection that says "Toronto (Union Stn./Gare Union)". Broadcasters on the local Radio-Canada radio and television stations routinely refer to "la gare Union". Although "union" is a perfectly good French word, I suppose an argument can be made that in this case it's a proper noun from English that's being used untranslated in French. Does anybody know of a generic term in French to describe a station jointly owned (or used) by more than one railway? Tom Box <tbox-HuFxiJqQPHPR7s880joybQ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> or <cz610-KuiJ5kEpwI52agKppZcdFSwD8/FfD2ys@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Toronto, ON, Canada ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Tcy2bD/SOnJAA/cosFAA/8ZCslB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> For help, send an email to Canadian-Passenger-Rail-help-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx