Re: What's installed by default on _Panther_?

On May 25, 2004, at 10:13 AM, Glenn Andreas wrote:

> At 12:36 AM -0400 5/25/04, Bob Ippolito wrote:
> > On May 25, 2004, at 12:22 AM, Glenn Andreas wrote:
> >
> > > So what's on _Panther_ (10.3)  by default?
> >
> > Python 2.3.0
> >   - all of the extensions you would typically expect
> >       - except for readline and waste
> >   - with the addition of the closed-source CoreGraphics SWIG wrapper 
> > from Apple
> >
> > Waste is best obtained from the MacPython 2.3 additions from Jack's 
> > official MacPython page, and readline can be easily acquired via 
> > PackageManager or pimp (with or without the additions, respectively)
>
> So now my question is why is PackMan & IDE source installed when 
> Waste, which is required to use them, isn't?  My underlying problem is 
> that if somebody installs and runs PyOXIDE without having PyObjC 
> installed (as would be the case of a fresh clean install), it doesn't 
> work - I was going to have an alert to tell them to use PackMan to 
> install it (since that works nice and simple), but in this case the 
> probably won't have waste installed either, so they can't do that.

It's not there because Apple chose not to compile it, same with 
readline.  Either they didn't know how that there were required 
dependencies to make waste compile, or they chose not to include it for 
license reasons.

> I guess I'll just provide a way for the user to use pimp directly to 
> install PyObjC.  Is it's API stable enough for generic third parties 
> to use it?  I suppose I could also bundle it with PyOXIDE, but I'd 
> rather have an "official" version installed in the system, in case of 
> bug fixes in that version.

The API of pimp is guaranteed to be stable for Python 2.3.  For 2.4, we 
may change it.

> > > (And any guesses as to what we'll see in Tiger in a month?)
> >
> > Even if I knew, which I don't, it probably shouldn't be talked about 
> > here (since anyone who gets to see it next month is under NDA).
> >
> > In any case, I'm hoping that whatever Tiger's preview has is 
> > flexible, because we still don't have the -undefined dynamic_lookup 
> > patches into CVS HEAD, let alone the 2.3 tree.. I really really 
> > really really really really really would like to have that stuff in 
> > 10.4 because
> > Fatal Python Error: Interpreter Not initialized (version mismatch?)
>
> Sorry - not asking for NDA violation, rather more along of the second 
> comment - what would reasonable to expect and other concerns and 
> desires to be able to bring to them during WWDC (and any suggestions 
> about who to talk to help make this happen).
>
> For example, I'd love to see PyObjC included, but is it stable enough 
> & "license compatible" for that to happen?  Or  for that matter, 
> having Python be part of the base install (instad of the optional BSD 
> install so we  would know that we could safely write 
> (pre/post)installer scripts in Python instead of some other 
> abomination).

PyObjC is license compatible, but I don't think it's a good idea for 
10.4 because the deadline for that is coming up Real Soon Now and it 
would probably make upgrading and supporting PyObjC more difficult.  
Having Python as part of the base install would be great, though.

-bob

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