Re: Optional BSD package is required for (useable) Python?

On May 11, 2004, at 7:08 PM, Tom Pollard wrote:

> On May 11, 2004, at 6:25 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote:
> > On May 11, 2004, at 4:51 PM, Tom Pollard wrote:
> > > There's a python startup script in the package created by 
> > > bundle-builder that sets a couple of environment variables and 
> > > invokes python to run the bundled script.  It is solely in order to 
> > > run this script that the BSD environment needs to be installed.  It 
> > > could easily be replaced with a /bin/sh script if it was considered 
> > > important to support users who didn't have /usr/bin/python installed 
> > > already.  That's the only change that would be required.
> >
> > No, /bin/sh doesn't provide the execve functionality required.
>
> Yes, I've heard you mention this execve issue, but I still don't 
> appreciate what the issue is.  My introduction to bundle-builder was 
> through the BitPim project <http://bitpim.sourceforge.net/>, which 
> distributes a Mac executable built with bundle-builder.  Replacing the 
> python startup script with a /bin/sh script in the BitPim bundle 
> seemed to work fine, that is, the app still starts up correctly when 
> double-clicked in the Finder, and that's the only thing that needs to 
> work in this case.

It's possible that it works for that app, but it doesn't do what it's 
supposed to be doing.  When finder starts an app it assigns a process 
serial number to that pid, if you don't use execve then the pid 
changes.  There's a lot of funny things that can happen if you don't 
obey all the rules.  For example, maybe you can start more than one 
simultaneous instance of BitPim, or some obscure things fail.  I try 
not to follow the "whatever works" philosophy when developing software 
if I can avoid it :)

> > Perl might, though, but it's not worth doing when your application is 
> > going to fall over silently anyway if the BSD subsystem is not there.
>
> My clear impression was that a standalone executable built by 
> bundle-builder should no longer need anything from the BSD package, 
> once started up.  It's just to execute that first startup script that 
> the BSD installation is required.

--semi-standalone depends on an existing Python.framework, which is in 
the BSD package.  --standalone is not dependent on the BSD subsystem 
(other than the startup script).

> Also, the BSD 'subsystem' is there whether you install the BSD 
> package, or not.  Things like bash, awk, sed, perl, etc., are all part 
> of the core BaseSystem package.  The optional BSD package just 
> installs additional components (like /usr/bin/python) that are useful 
> for working from the Terminal.
>
> So, why would you expect your app to fall over silently if the BSD 
> package hadn't been installed?

A completely standalone app that includes Python wouldn't (with a 
proper executable stub), but that's not really what we were talking 
about... or at least not what I was talking about.

-bob


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