RE: Scrum and RUP

Adriano:
Thanks for confirming this.  I forgot to be explicit, but something else
I meant to say.  You can take a committed dev group (most are) and have
them do RUP/Scrum in a way that an upper management that doesn't want to
hear about agile will accept.  Things like daily meetings, information
radiators, getting feedback monthly, staying in touch with the customer,
all sound good ;)  The fact is, management is not stupid. They just want
certain things and don't always know that they can get it with agile.  

This is a little pre-mature to release, but here's a chapter discussing
this I've just put on our public wiki (Dan Rawsthorne and I are writing
a book on effective software development and this is a likely chapter).
See
http://www.netobjectivesbooks.com/N_O_BookFeedback_Wiki/owbase/ow.asp?Do
ntTryToSellXP

Alan Shalloway, Sr. Consultant, CEO
office: 425-313-3065. mobile: 425-531-0810

Net Objectives' vision is effective software development without
suffering. Our mission is to assist software development teams in
accomplishing this through a combination of training and mentoring. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Adriano Comai [mailto:comai@xxxxxx] 
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 2:49 PM
To: scrumdevelopment@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: R: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum and RUP

Alan,

having been involved in many RUP customizations, I think RUP_Scrum makes
sense (much more, in my opinion, than RUP-XP).
RUP needs _exactly_ the Scrum practices to become agile.

As you know, many shops with an existing waterfall culture buy RUP as an
help to move towards a more effective development approach, and then
misuse
it. We can show them papers about RUP failures and antipatterns, such as
that by Larman and Krutchen. Still better, we can help them with
effective
practices, the ones from Scrum, that can be used to avoid those traps.

Adriano Comai
www.analisi-disegno.com

> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: Alan Shalloway [mailto:alshall@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Inviato: domenica 15 dicembre 2002 22.03
> A: scrumdevelopment@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Oggetto: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum and RUP
>
>
> I certainly would not try to do RUP-XP.  That "marriage" never made
> sense to me and still doesn't.  I also agree that the powers that be
at
> Rational seem to miss the point of agile.  However, the Rational
> consultants (or at least several I've talked to) do get agile.
>
> I have also had the sentiment that "If I had my way, it would
> not have happened. But if 'twere done, 'twere best done well."  The
> problem with many RUP projects is that many times the dev team want to
> be agile while management wants to do RUP.  They don't really even
care
> so much about agile, but are following a mandate from above about RUP.
>
> I know how I can make RUP agile, but I don't know how I can do XP
under
> RUP.  Also, I personally don't think doing XP is so important - doing
> agile is.  XP is merely one of many ways to be agile.
>
> Alan Shalloway, Sr. Consultant, CEO
> office: 425-313-3065. mobile: 425-531-0810


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