Re: I just subscribed to CounterPunch

Ethan, have  you been following the discussion on this list? John has been 
calling people who are not going to campaign for the DemoFink who gets 
nominated all sorts of names, generally putting out one kind of sectarian 
attack after another on anyone to his left, etc.  I have been saying "Look, 
folks here disagree, let's keep it civil and discuss what we can do that does 
not focus on the election-time splits."  

Your remarks here are out of line with this discussion.

They are also based on a very strange logic.  Since when do those of us on the 
left quit advocating what we believe in because people want us to shut up? When 
I was a teen, a lot of friends in my high school thought I should shut up about 
civil rights, and certainly not take part in any demos around it.  The 
overwhelming belief was that I and a few others should shut up about socialism 
or even freedom--those were "Commie words."  By your logic in what you just 
said, I should have shut up.

Then a few years later, say in late 1964, the sentiment at the University of 
Michigan was overwhelmingly in favor of the Vietnam War.  Again, most people 
thought we should shut up about it. Even many who called themselves laft said 
to shut up about it because it would weaken the civil rights movement to talk 
about the war.  Should we have shut up?

If you believe in campaigning for Democratic friends of the capitalists, go out 
and do it. Even, in friendly fashion, urge those of us here to join you.  But 
please do not take these rhetorical postures that, in the name of reducing 
factionalism, tell a large proportion of the folks on this list to shut up.  
That is destructive.

And just what the capitalists want.

best
sam

"Ethan Young" <ethanyoung@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>Now we all know Lacny is not going to go whup Nader's ass. For one thing, we
>know Ralph could take him out with one power-packed blow.
>
>What the chorus who continue to scream for an '04 third party effort need to
>hear is that their position is based on principle, not because there is any
>kind of demand for it in society.
>
>The best outcome would be a vote total of less than 1% , leaving a bunch of
>campaigners who will disperse in demoralization, years before '08. In other
>words, in terms of shoring up the left, a Nader run would be the greater
>evil.
>
>Alternatively, if lefties in the anti-Bush effort continue to push the key
>issues, like militarism and national health care, there is a basis for
>renewed action after the election, whoever wins. [I doubt Kerry can beat
>Bush, but that's out of our hands.]
>
>I don't think any Nader effort could seriously undercut Kerry/Edwards. But
>there is still a deep, widespread belief that the Nader Greens handed '00 to
>Bush. Folks don't want a third party this year, and don't trust
>third-partisans to be anything but spoilers. Hence, the strongest
>groundswell for a lesser evil since '32.
>
>Sit out the election if you want--it won't make any difference. But don't
>make opposing the Democrats a splitting issue. Heap scorn on the ABB crowd
>and the result will be a polarization within the left that will take decades
>to fix.

>ethan young
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <sam4wp@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <marxist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 7:54 PM
>Subject: Re: [marxist] I just subscribed to CounterPunch
>
>
>> Somehow, the concept of "labor thug" leaps to mind.
>> Hopefully, you are just joking.
>>
>> best
>> sam
>> John Lacny <jlacny@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> >Levenstein:
>> >
>> >> By running an article by Ralph Nader rebutting the
>> >> Nation's demand that he not mount an independent
>> >> Presidential campaign, CounterPunch has proved
>> >> once again that it won't bow to demands by liberals
>> >
>> >Hey, don't forget the "Stalinists," like me.
>> >
>> >People with an accurate medium-term memory will recall that the last time
>Nader ran, he was adamant in the demand that he be allowed into the debates.
>If he runs this time, it might be a good move on his part to prioritize (not
>that he'd have shown himself to be very good at that anyway) by first making
>the demand that he receive adequate Secret Service protection. Just a little
>bit of unsolicited advice, I know.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >- - - - -
>> >John Lacny
>> >
>> >People of the US, unite and defeat the Bush regime and all its running
>dogs!
>> >
>>
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