Cockburn on Bush's war (Socialist Worker)

http://www.socialistworker.org/2002-1/398/398_06_AlexanderCockburn.shtml

Socialist Worker, March 15, 2002

Alexander Cockburn on Bush¹s war:
"People have begun asking questions"

ALEXANDER COCKBURN is a columnist for the Nation magazine and coeditor of
the left-wing newsletter CounterPunch. He talked to NICOLE COLSON about the
course of Bush¹s "war against terrorism"--and the future of the antiwar
movement.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Socialist Worker: The Bush administration declared "victory" pretty quickly
in Afghanistan, and a lot of pro-war liberals, like Salon editor David
Talbot or Nation columnist Christopher Hitchens, say that we should admit we
were wrong to oppose this war. What would you say?

Alexander Cockburn: God, they all say this. David Talbot. There's a guy
called Michael Shuman, formerly the head of the Institute for Policy
Studies, who just wrote a really stupid piece. Todd Gitlin, of course. One
idiot after another.

Well, I'd say, "What victory?" The basic question comes down to this: If
you're declaring victory in a war on terror, have you therefore defeated the
likelihood or the prospect of terror?

They may have temporarily arrested plans, but have they materially decreased
the risk of terror or the motives for terror? No, absolutely to the
contrary. They¹ve increased them.


SW: What do you think will be the legacy of the attacks on civil liberties?

AC: Justice Departments and attorneys general always use emergencies and
crises like September 11 to push through their agenda.

Basically, a lot of the PATRIOT Act was stuff that they couldn¹t get through
in 1996, when Clinton signed the Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty
legislation. A lot of it was part of the Justice Department's wish list
then.

They're always ready to do it. So the civil liberties fight is an eternal
fight.


SW: What has been the role of the mainstream media in this?

AC: I think the mainstream press is getting into a phase where it has more
reservations. You can see it on a number of levels.

I think one of the factors might have been the Enron affair, and I think
also the economic stimulus bill. Also, the fact of the matter is that a lot
of people thought the "axis of evil" stuff is insane.

And so, in that atmosphere, it became a little more permissible to ask
questions like, "How many people were killed in the bombing?" Gradually, I
think people have begun asking questions like, "Was this war such a good
idea?"


SW: What do you think is next on the agenda for the Bush administration?

AC: I don't think they know. I think a lot of this is a bit like the
discussion of the PATRIOT Act before Christmas.

They began with the PATRIOT Act, and crucially, in October, there wasn¹t
much resistance, except from a few people--some of them on the conservative
side actually, like Rep. Bob Barr (R-Ga.). And they thought, "We can get
away with anything." So they proposed military tribunals, and they ran into
a bit more resistance than they thought.

I think that when they put out this "axis of evil" nonsense about Iran,
Korea and Iraq, some of it is just putting your finger in the wind to see
what will happen. Then they can always say, "No! We're not going to attack
North Korea. We're not going to attack Iran. But, yes, we are going to take
out Iraq." And everyone says, "Well, okay, that's all right."

So I don't think they really know exactly what they¹re going to do. I think
it's very much a matter of the political temperature -- especially of how
much resistance there is.

SW: How do you think the antiwar movement should react?

AC: I think the antiwar movement was a little nervous and intimidated.
There's been a lot of bullying and ranting by people like Hitchens and
Talbot.

I think some people were a little nervous about what they should say and do
-- because they felt, obviously, that the September 11 attacks were
terrorist attacks and were wrong.

But I think that the peace movement has to realize that it's on stronger
ground than it might suppose.

What's actually happened in Afghanistan? How many al-Qaeda people were
actually caught or killed? What happened to Osama bin Laden? Has the
security and safety of people in Afghanistan been enhanced?

With all of these questions, you should look closely and not feel ashamed to
ask them.


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