[L-I] A CONVERSATION WITH AMBASSADOR BORISLAV MILOSEVIC, SLOBODAN'S BROTHER (Part 1)

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A CONVERSATION WITH AMBASSADOR BORISLAV MILOSEVIC, SLOBODAN'S BROTHER (Part 1)
[Posted 2 June 2002]
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Note from Jared Israel: On May 24th I spoke via three way telephone with 
BORISLAV MILOSEVIC, Yugoslav Ambassador to Russia from 1998-2000 and before 
that Ambassador to Algeria. 

We discussed the significance of widespread Russian support for Slobodan 
Milosevic; the New World Empire's efforts to destroy international judicial 
standards and political discourse; and the highly deceptive character of 
Sept. 11 and the War on Terror. 

Ambassador Milosevic mainly spoke Serbo-Croatian, which was kindly translated 
by Vladimir Krsljanin, International Secretary of the Socialist Party of 
Serbia. A few times Ambassador Milosevic spoke English, as indicated in the 
text.

-- JARED ISRAEL

[To make following the conversation easier, we have preceeded comments with 
the name of the speaker.]

* JARED ISRAEL

Mr. Ambassador it's a great honor to speak with you. 

For our readers, let me say that your brother, Slobodan Milosevic, has just 
won the Sholokhov prize, named for Mikhail Sholokhov, author of the great 
Russian novel, 'And Quiet Flows the Don.' Could you say a bit more about the 
prize? 


* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC 

Yes. It is perhaps the most distinguished Russian award, given to artists and 
political leaders of outstanding achievement. Today at the award ceremony I 
accepted the prize for Slobodan Milosevic because, as the writer Yuri 
Bondarev said in bestowing this honor, Slobodan is being held in the dungeon 
of The Hague. 


* JARED ISRAEL

Dungeon is the word, isn't it? They don't even let him meet with Chris Black, 
the head of his lawyers' committee. And his living conditions are outrageous 
- terrible food, no exercise, no right to see his own doctors - or any heart 
specialist - even though his heart condition is a matter of record. And 
forced to be in court all day and to cross-examine witnesses virtually every 
day, week after week, which is unheard-of. 


* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC

I think this award will further strengthen the fighting spirit of Slobodan 
Milosevic and his courage as well. 


* JARED ISRAEL

Also it suggests that the Russians see President Milosevic's resistance as 
important to their own experience. 


* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC

Yes. The greater part of Russian society strongly supports Slobodan and 
practically nobody approved his delivery to The Hague, not even those 
Rightist parties who were hostile to his government. Both houses of the 
Russian parliament voted overwhelmingly to condemn his kidnapping. Even the 
mainstream newspapers publish articles critical of The Hague. 

Russian people consider Slobodan Milosevic a hero of resistance to 
imperialist intervention, a patriot who defends his country and his people. 


* JARED ISRAEL

This support from Russia is very encouraging to me. 

I interviewed your brother on March 23rd 2001, just before he was arrested. 

During that interview he said that one of the things US and West European 
leaders hated about Yugoslavia was the way you handled the question of 
national and religious group relations. There had been so much conflict in 
the past. Some groups had been organized by the Nazis and earlier by the 
Ottoman Empire to attack Serbs, and Roma and Jews as well of course - and yet 
in Yugoslavia, and this is still true in Serbia, you had schools in 24 
different languages and court proceeding in nine languages. When I was in 
Serbia this past year I saw that there is still an attitude of mutual 
appreciation among different groups. 

It seems to me that the strategy of the New World Empire that has attacked 
you is to stir up hatred. They use the guidelines laid down by the Nazis, 
finding points of weakness in ethnic or religious groups that will allow the 
Empire's mass media and operatives to play on cultural traits that if left 
alone wouldn't necessarily be a problem. They stir up hatred in one culture 
against another in a hideous way, especially appealing to groups that were 
once in a dominant position, empowering their worst elements. The Empire does 
this more effectively than the Nazis because they have much more 
sophisticated mass media. Perhaps the worst thing is that the mass media 
romanticizes racist violence by calling it revenge. 

But, contrary to the media lies, (1) your government never engaged in racism. 
You always tried to promote fraternity. This was clear in Slobodan 
Milosevic's speech at Kosovo Field in 1989 (2) and before then too, despite 
the extremely provocative situation. 

Some people say Russia and Serbia are linked, that Serbia is little Russia. 
And so the fact that the Russian people, after what they've been through, the 
terrible trauma of the 1990s, the fact that they can see as their beacon this 
man who stands for social justice and tolerance, this gives me hope. Because 
there is another possible beacon - ethnic hatred, anti-Semitism, which has 
reared its head in Russia in the past, a Black Hundreds solution. 


* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC

You're completely right. There was no kind of discrimination in Yugoslavia, 
and while some former Yugoslav Republics have become virtual mono-ethnic 
states, Serbia hosts a million refugees of all national and religious groups 
and one third our population is not ethnic Serbs. (3)

Serbia did not abolish the autonomy of Kosovo in 1989 as some so-called 
experts claim. Only certain extreme and inappropriate elements of statehood 
were removed from what was after all a provincial government. This was done 
to prevent the de facto creation of a separate state in Kosovo. 


* JARED ISRAEL

Which is precisely what NATO and the UN are supporting now - a separate 
Kosovo.


* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC 

Yes. 

Kosovo Albanians were not deprived of any human or cultural rights in 1989. 
The same was true of people in [the Serbian province of] Vojvodina. In fact, 
Kosovo Albanians continued to have cultural rights unequalled in the rest of 
Europe. 

The accusations of loss of autonomy were contrived. The secessionists 
organized or forced ethnic Albanians to boycott State institutions and set up 
parallel institutions for purely political reasons. (4)

Everyone knows that schools, universities, the press, hospitals and TV were 
maintained in Kosovo in the Albanian language, even during this decade-long 
boycott. The secessionists organized this boycott to provide Western media 
with provocative images and to create a no-alternative situation for 
Albanians. All political manipulation. (4a)

This is clear from the leaflet which Slobodan Milosevic showed The Hague 
'court' while he was cross-examining [ethnic Albanian leader] Ibrahim Rugova. 
The leaflet, which was signed by the KLA and Rugova, ordered ethnic Albanians 
to leave Kosovo during the bombing. Do you see the game they played? 

This demonstrates their dual purpose: creating the false appearance that 
Serbia was causing ethnic Albanians to suffer, so that this could be 
broadcast to the NATO countries, and fostering a situation within Kosovo 
where compromise was near impossible. This was behind everything they did, 
including the so-called Racak massacre and the exodus of the ethnic Albanian 
population during the NATO aggression. 


[ Note: regarding the above, please see, 'The Racak Hoax' at
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/Johnstone/racakhoax.htm 

And 'Why Albanians Fled During NATO Bombing,' at 
http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/keys.htm]


* JARED ISRAEL

And once they got the Albanians to leave, they put them in refugee camps 
under KLA control, with NATO's blessing. Even the Western media had stories 
reporting that these camps featured non-stop hate-the-Serbs-and-'Gypsies' 
indoctrination. 


* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC

Yet during the three months in this Hague 'court', we have seen one after 
another witness testify they never even heard of the Kosovo Liberation Army. 


* JARED ISRAEL

It would embarrass NATO. They claim they are fighting terrorism, but these 
people are all members - or leaders - of a terrorist group. 


* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC

Yes. It is a problem. 

At the very beginning of the trial it seemed as if Mr. May, whom they call 
'judge,' was trying to create the impression of impartiality. But now he 
openly behaves as an extension of the prosecutor. He prompts and assists 
witnesses, allowing them every liberty including making political speeches. 
But he cuts off Slobodan Milosevic and does not allow him to conduct 
cross-examination fully or to express his opinion. 

This is very alarming. It creates a precedent for violating accepted legal 
principles including the impartiality of courts, the very basis of law. It 
requires the strongest international protest. 

This on top of the fact that Slobodan Milosevic is a head of state, 
overthrown by foreign money and then kidnapped by foreign agents. Who is 
next? 


* JARED ISRAEL

I think this so-called trial makes the Reichstag Fire case look good. At 
least Dimitrov was allowed to present his case. 


* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC 

Yes, this Hague 'court' behaves like someone's instrument. Since its 
foundation it has been a tool of aggression against Yugoslavia. 

In some of my statements here in Russia I often say that the Yugoslav crisis 
was created in order to reorganize the whole of international relations in 
accordance with American interests and expansionism and it was done in a very 
conscious way. 


* JARED ISRAEL

You know, also it was a step towards the encirclement of Russia, wasn't it? 
Because isn't it true that those who would attack Russia need to consolidate 
their hold in the Balkans first? And if you look at what has happened, NATO 
now surrounds Russia from Central Asia to the Baltic. They have penetrated a 
dozen countries. (5)


* BORISLAV MILOSEVIC

The aggression in Yugoslavia was an attempt to impose new International rules 
to justify NATO, a regional military organization, usurping the sovereign 
rights of countries outside its previously claimed zone of responsibility. So 
military and geopolitical expansion is presented as humanitarian peace 
making. Terrorist attacks are launched and then intervention is threatened if 
a country defends itself, and all this is justified by a whole new 
interpretation of international law so that now even the United Nations is 
employed to legitimize geopolitical expansion. 

There were in the past many other examples of violations of the UN charter: 
Vietnam, Granada, and so on, and this includes the sending of Russian troops 
to Afghanistan. However, none of these instances were sanctioned by the 
Security Council. 

In this sense, the Yugoslav case was something new, an attempt to create an 
international legal framework to justify the destruction of a country by 
terrorist forces. And what took place after Sept. 11, that is NATO's 
expansion into Central Asia, is a continuation. 

So, in the Yugoslavia crisis we saw this new quality - aggression condoned by 
international law and international legal structures. And after September 11 
we see this process moving into a new stage. This makes it clear that both 
the aggression against Yugoslavia and the expansion of NATO from a West 
European organization into Eastern Europe - these were of more than regional 
importance. (5)


* JARED ISRAEL

You know one of the interesting things about September 11th is that here we 
see an Empire which has organized most of the terrorism in the world, mainly 
starting with Afghanistan, but they claim to be leading a crusade against 
terrorism. 

The whole strategy of the US intervention in Afghanistan, beginning in 1979, 
was to promote terrorism. They and the Saudis used the Wahhabi form of Islam, 
pouring money into the madresses which became schools training the terrorists 
that subsequently plagued Chechnya, Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Kashmir and I 
think they are in the Middle East as well. 

And this same terrorism which they have created - and there is a lot of 
indication that Mr. bin Laden is still connected with the CIA (6) although 
now that NATO is entrenched in Central Asia they conveniently stopped talking 
about him - this same terrorism which they unleash in order to destabilize 
areas is also used as an excuse to intervene. So it is a tool of many 
purposes. Very convenient and very American, because it's very American to 
have a tool that does two things at once. A gadget. Terrorism is a political 
gadget because on the one hand they can use it to attack multiethnic society 
as they did in Bosnia and then on the other hand they can use it as the 
excuse to invade, as they are now doing with Central Asia. 

But what shows their hypocrisy is - and you may or may not know about this - 
the United States is still shipping in millions of militant Islamic 
fundamentalist textbooks (6a) into Afghanistan. Now why on earth would they 
be doing this if they were sincerely fighting against Islamic fundamentalism? 
They just used this terrorist movement which they themselves had created as 
an excuse to move in. 

Just one other point that occurred to me when you were talking is that the 
conduct and discourse of your government, which was the last legitimate 
government in Yugoslavia since what's there now was created by the US, 
Germany and Norway - the discourse of your government respected political 
ideas. (7)

This New World Empire attacks the very possibility of political discourse by 
shattering the link between words and what they define - the Empire bombs 
people and calls it humanitarian. They manufacture events - we saw that with 
Racak. And they simply rewrite history (8), including manufacturing a 
fictional version of your brother's famous 1989 speech. (1) 

By doing these things they undermine the possibility of rational discussion 
because truth becomes whatever the powers-that-be and their media portray as 
true - it's a function of what's shown on TV. And at the same time, they 
reduce politics to threat and violence and then they say, "Alas, that's 
reality." But your brother takes ideas seriously. 

One of the organizations orchestrating the *anti-human* actions at The Hague 
is called, amazingly, Human Rights Watch. I was present the first few days of 
President Milosevic's 'trial' at The Hague and I got to observe Richard 
Dicker, a top HRW bureaucrat, in operation. Not only was he virtually the 
only person representing the 'Tribunal' to the press - I mean, he was Carla 
del Ponte's spokesman! - but both the press and 'Tribunal' officials clearly 
deferred to him, and he was often closeted with the prosecutors. I saw this 
with my own eyes. I commented to one of the senior reporters, "It looks like 
Dickers is running the show," and the reporter laughed and said, "Dickers 
*is* the show."

We have several articles in preparation about HRW. Their board of directors 
is a Who's Who of the Imperial establishment, including Warren Zimmermann, 
the U.S. Ambassador who helped destroy Yugoslavia including by sponsoring 
Alijah Izetbegovic, the fundamentalist who devastated Bosnia (9) and George 
Soros who boasts that he helped his father run an extortion racket for the 
Nazis in Hungary during World War Two, visiting Jewish families targeted for 
death camps and demanding all their money in exchange for safe passage. And 
now he runs a privatized adjunct to the CIA. And this is *Human Rights* Watch.

HRW demonizes anybody who stands up to Imperial-organized terror. When NATO 
sent the KLA to attack Macedonia, Human Rights Watch condemned Macedonian 
security troops for resisting. 

When I interviewed President Milosevic I asked why your government accepted 
defeat during the coup of 2000 instead of going to war against your 
opponents. He said something like, "We wanted to avoid being sucked into a 
civil war, which would allow NATO to intervene on the grounds that Serbs are 
'hopelessly violent.' Moreover, it is easy to kill people but it isn't easy 
to bring them back." 

Despite everything that has been done to you, you resisted descending into a 
nightmare pit. You have upheld political discourse against this Imperial 
onslaught. 

I read a thing the other day by Noam Chomsky, whom a lot of people put on a 
pedestal. In it Chomsky makes the sweeping generalization that 
counter-terrorism "is terrorism carried out by the state." But that's a very 
simple minded approach. Because, contrary to what Chomsky says happened in 
Yugoslavia, when you fought the terrorists in Kosovo - who were themselves 
sponsored by NATO countries - when you fought them, the Yugoslav Army took 
causalities rather than endangering civilians. (10)

Now one cannot say that *taking* causalities rather than hurting civilian is 
the same as *not* taking casualties and hurting the civilians. So all 
counter-terror is not terror. There are choices in the unfortunate situation 
of fighting terrorism as in everything. And of course saying, 
"counter-terrorism is state terror" has the effect of obscuring these choices 
and may end up justifying terrorism - because after all the terrorists are by 
definition no worse than the people fighting them. 

*** THIS DISCUSSION IS CONTINUED IN PART 2 ***


www.tenc.net * Emperor's Clothes

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