[14/07/2005 1:07 PM] -->| goodbobman (~bob@pool-68-239-56-161.bos.east.verizon.net) has joined #drupal-docs
[14/07/2005 1:07 PM] <mozillaman> Ahh :)
[14/07/2005 1:07 PM] <Morbus> there 'e is.
[14/07/2005 1:07 PM] <goodbobman> Hi, Kieran et all. Bob here-- just joined
[14/07/2005 1:07 PM] <Amazon> Hi Bobo
[14/07/2005 1:07 PM] <Amazon> Bog
[14/07/2005 1:07 PM] <Amazon> Bob
[14/07/2005 1:07 PM] <Amazon> sorry typing too fast
[14/07/2005 1:07 PM] <goodbobman> there ya go...
[14/07/2005 1:08 PM] <Amazon> I was just starting to explain the competition for good user experience in CMS's
[14/07/2005 1:08 PM] <Amazon> and how many people find Drupal hard to use
[14/07/2005 1:08 PM] <Amazon> and one element of user experience is using labels that end users and are comfortable with
[14/07/2005 1:09 PM] <mozillaman> Oh, should the be logged?
[14/07/2005 1:09 PM] <mozillaman> *this
[14/07/2005 1:09 PM] <Amazon> please
[14/07/2005 1:09 PM] >DrupalBot< identify mozillaman church
[14/07/2005 1:09 PM] *DrupalBot* The operation succeeded.
[14/07/2005 1:09 PM] <goodbobman> Yes. It's easy to forget, in the maze of technnology questions and challenges...
[14/07/2005 1:09 PM] <Amazon> Bob why don't you take it from here
[14/07/2005 1:09 PM] >DrupalBot< join #drupal-docs
[14/07/2005 1:09 PM] -->| DrupalBot (tinderbox@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #drupal-docs
[14/07/2005 1:09 PM] <goodbobman> That you still need intuitive terms.
[14/07/2005 1:10 PM] <goodbobman> Or language. That can go along way in making a UX easier to use.
[14/07/2005 1:10 PM] <Morbus> (my IRC client will be logging the whole thing too; will provide on request).
[14/07/2005 1:10 PM] <goodbobman> A very small example...
[14/07/2005 1:10 PM] <goodbobman> Worked with some real newbie users who were't familiar with the
[14/07/2005 1:10 PM] <goodbobman> radio button convention for selecting between 2 options.
[14/07/2005 1:10 PM] <goodbobman> Just inserting the word "Or" between the 2 solved the problem.
[14/07/2005 1:11 PM] <Amazon> great example
[14/07/2005 1:11 PM] <mozillaman> That makes sence
[14/07/2005 1:11 PM] <Amazon> we have been talking about how to capture these guidelines
[14/07/2005 1:11 PM] <mozillaman> So, would "Select from the following options", work similarily?
[14/07/2005 1:12 PM] <goodbobman> I think so!
[14/07/2005 1:12 PM] <mozillaman> Since developers take these things for granted, we tend to forget first time experiences.
[14/07/2005 1:12 PM] <goodbobman> It's hard to pretend you don't know what you do know.
[14/07/2005 1:12 PM] <eaton> Just to be clear -- we're talking about documentation and UI for people configuring and managing drupal sites? And how to clear up common misunderstandings about how drupal itself works?
[14/07/2005 1:13 PM] <mozillaman> I think is't more about how to let Drupal explain itself
[14/07/2005 1:13 PM] <Morbus> What about checkboxes? "Select one or more from the following options" vs ."Select only one of the following options"? That keeps the dialogue the same, but at the possible expense of hiding the clarity amongst boring instructions.
[14/07/2005 1:14 PM] <goodbobman> Ideally, the fewer words that are still clear, the better.
[14/07/2005 1:14 PM] <mozillaman> If we do this once, will we ever have to show this to the same user again?
[14/07/2005 1:14 PM] <goodbobman> So the more of the story the interface itself can tell, the better.
[14/07/2005 1:14 PM] <mozillaman> Supposedly, they will have learned from experiences in the EG: installer?
[14/07/2005 1:14 PM] <Morbus> "Select one of:" and "Select one or more of:" ?
[14/07/2005 1:14 PM] <Morbus> And is "Select" a good term? "Choose"?
[14/07/2005 1:15 PM] <goodbobman> Before we go too deep into workshopping this one use case...
[14/07/2005 1:15 PM] <goodbobman> Let's chat some about the concept or principal of good UX
[14/07/2005 1:15 PM] <goodbobman> if that sounds good to everyone.
[14/07/2005 1:15 PM] <mozillaman> Sure
[14/07/2005 1:15 PM] <eaton> I think that words like 'taxonomy' and 'vocabilary' and so on are a lot more troublesome than radio/check verbiage, IMO...
[14/07/2005 1:15 PM] <eaton> *nod*
[14/07/2005 1:15 PM] <Morbus> fine with me.
[14/07/2005 1:15 PM] <mozillaman> May I file a bug on this specific example though?
[14/07/2005 1:15 PM] <Morbus> eaton: i think the word "categories" is more confusing, for our feature, than "taxonomy"
[14/07/2005 1:16 PM] <Amazon> Ok, we are going to implement some ground rules for this chat
[14/07/2005 1:16 PM] <Amazon> let's use the hand system going forward
[14/07/2005 1:16 PM] <Amazon> I'll keep a list and let everyone know when it's their turn
[14/07/2005 1:16 PM] <Morbus> okeedoo.
[14/07/2005 1:16 PM] <Amazon> Bob: the floor is yours
[14/07/2005 1:17 PM] <goodbobman> Okay. So Kieran,just interupt...
[14/07/2005 1:17 PM] <goodbobman> if there are questions.
[14/07/2005 1:17 PM] <goodbobman> First off, the more visually clear, the better.
[14/07/2005 1:17 PM] <goodbobman> For example, down the road, it would be much better for your users...
[14/07/2005 1:17 PM] <goodbobman> to have a drag and drop-like interface to configure page layout...
[14/07/2005 1:18 PM] <goodbobman> instead of having to set and rank weights via drop-downs, etc.
[14/07/2005 1:18 PM] <goodbobman> Because that way, user input matches user output.
[14/07/2005 1:18 PM] <goodbobman> But language still fills a gap.
[14/07/2005 1:18 PM] <goodbobman> If the UX is so intuitive that average users never need to look
[14/07/2005 1:19 PM] <goodbobman> at documentation, that would be great...
[14/07/2005 1:19 PM] <goodbobman> But words still matter, and visuals can't cover 100 % of complexity.
[14/07/2005 1:19 PM] <goodbobman> Especially with a flexible tool like CS.
[14/07/2005 1:19 PM] <goodbobman> So on principle, your words have to act like an interface.
[14/07/2005 1:20 PM] <goodbobman> So example, in the last sentence, I said "In principle,"
[14/07/2005 1:20 PM] <goodbobman> why?
[14/07/2005 1:20 PM] <goodbobman> To label what followed.
[14/07/2005 1:21 PM] <goodbobman> So good instructions move stepwise with good labels. For example...
[14/07/2005 1:21 PM] <goodbobman> An overview of getting CS up and running....
[14/07/2005 1:21 PM] <goodbobman> Step 1 Downloading... (explain where to get it, download times, where to save on desktop,
[14/07/2005 1:22 PM] <goodbobman> etc, Step 2 Upload... (different ways
[14/07/2005 1:22 PM] * Morbus raises hand.
[14/07/2005 1:22 PM] <Amazon> goodbobman: many of the people here might be confused by CS, CivicSpace, which is basically drupal with contributions
[14/07/2005 1:22 PM] <goodbobman> right. good point.
[14/07/2005 1:23 PM] <goodbobman> Let me pause here and see if this is connecting with the questions people have.
[14/07/2005 1:23 PM] <Amazon> Morbus
[14/07/2005 1:23 PM] <Amazon> you have the floor
[14/07/2005 1:23 PM] <Morbus> Is a numeric progression, wizard 1-2-3 style, recommended more over other alternatives? are there other stringently defined options?
[14/07/2005 1:23 PM] <goodbobman> So my feeling is to define principles and templates rather than trying to
[14/07/2005 1:24 PM] <goodbobman> have ironclad definitions due to flexible nature of language.
[14/07/2005 1:24 PM] <goodbobman> Numbers help people organize their thinking
[14/07/2005 1:24 PM] <goodbobman> and avoid feeling overwhelmed by the scope of an undertaking.
[14/07/2005 1:25 PM] <goodbobman> I think when you say, wizard, you mean step 1, next , step 2, next.
[14/07/2005 1:25 PM] <goodbobman> and that's good for some types of configuration because it is so
[14/07/2005 1:25 PM] <goodbobman> focused.
[14/07/2005 1:25 PM] <goodbobman> The UX "tunnels" the user.
[14/07/2005 1:25 PM] <goodbobman> But it's not good when there are many forks in a path.
[14/07/2005 1:25 PM] <goodbobman> Because the tunnel requires narrow options.
[14/07/2005 1:26 PM] <goodbobman> And if the tunnel is too long, the user gets claustraphobic in there.
[14/07/2005 1:26 PM] <Morbus> well, i'm not sure, I, personally, like the page flipping "nexts". I hate using the mouse. Is there a difference, usability/ia wise?
[14/07/2005 1:26 PM] <Morbus> to having 3 pages sequentially numbered vs. three sections of a single page?
[14/07/2005 1:26 PM] <Morbus> assuming a linear, non-branching path, i mean.
[14/07/2005 1:26 PM] * eaton raises hand.
[14/07/2005 1:26 PM] <Amazon> If you have questions for Bob please say hand
[14/07/2005 1:27 PM] <Amazon> Bob, go ahead
[14/07/2005 1:27 PM] <goodbobman> Let me just finidh with Morbus q.
[14/07/2005 1:27 PM] <goodbobman> It's a good one. There's no 100% right answer.
[14/07/2005 1:27 PM] <goodbobman> In general, low-skill users are more comfortable in tunnels...
[14/07/2005 1:28 PM] <goodbobman> one at a time decisions.... visual clarity.
[14/07/2005 1:28 PM] <goodbobman> However, higher skill will be fine with a 3 part page or more of a
[14/07/2005 1:28 PM] *mozillaman raises hand
[14/07/2005 1:28 PM] <goodbobman> form presentation, and may "hate" being in a tunnel.
[14/07/2005 1:28 PM] <goodbobman> In some cases, it may make sense to offer a Q&A path and a form path.
[14/07/2005 1:28 PM] <goodbobman> Questions?
[14/07/2005 1:29 PM] <Amazon> eaton: go ahead
[14/07/2005 1:29 PM] <killes> hand
[14/07/2005 1:29 PM] <Amazon> mozillaman, then killes
[14/07/2005 1:29 PM] <Amazon> after eaton is done
[14/07/2005 1:29 PM] *mozillaman nods
[14/07/2005 1:30 PM] <goodbobman> eaton still there?
[14/07/2005 1:30 PM] <eaton> From the reading on info architecture I've been doing it seems like "deciding what mental model you want to convey'" is the important first step, then visually presenting that mental model. Morbus' earlier question is probably more about that presentation...
[14/07/2005 1:30 PM] <eaton> Would you say that some of this discussion is trying to identify weaknesses in the mental model of 'drupalness' and the workings of a drupal site?
[14/07/2005 1:30 PM] <goodbobman> Right. Yes. Drupal-centrism compared to user-centric model.
[14/07/2005 1:31 PM] <eaton> thanks.
[14/07/2005 1:31 PM] <goodbobman> First, you have tech-savvy and non-tech savvy admin users.
[14/07/2005 1:31 PM] <goodbobman> And after that, you have non-admin end users in both categories as well.
[14/07/2005 1:31 PM] <goodbobman> But non-tech savvy admins are key to expanding the base.
[14/07/2005 1:32 PM] <goodbobman> By "mental model", we mean, who does this person think or envision the system?
[14/07/2005 1:32 PM] <goodbobman> There's often a gap between the system design intent and the user reality
[14/07/2005 1:32 PM] <goodbobman> or perception.
[14/07/2005 1:32 PM] <goodbobman> Other ?s
[14/07/2005 1:32 PM] <mozillaman> So, you are saying we should provide "tunnels" or wizards to do tasks for non-tech admins. EG: a taxonomy wizard. Like Microsoft's office products?
[14/07/2005 1:33 PM] <goodbobman> I'm not trying to advocate a one-size fits all solution the way
[14/07/2005 1:33 PM] <goodbobman> Microsoft does.
[14/07/2005 1:33 PM] <mozillaman> Well, I mean, a quick start wizard for complex modules.
[14/07/2005 1:34 PM] * Morbus raises hand, looks for proxy asker as he's going to lunch.
[14/07/2005 1:34 PM] <mozillaman> Something the user can optout of
[14/07/2005 1:34 PM] <goodbobman> I think that could be a great option.
[14/07/2005 1:34 PM] <goodbobman> As long as it's not force-fed.
[14/07/2005 1:34 PM] <mozillaman> thanks
[14/07/2005 1:34 PM] <goodbobman> One more point on the
[14/07/2005 1:35 PM] <goodbobman> system design theory and user reality gap.
[14/07/2005 1:35 PM] <goodbobman> The way to close it is by watching or understanding a user's thinking
[14/07/2005 1:35 PM] <goodbobman> as he or she navigates through the system.
[14/07/2005 1:35 PM] <goodbobman> You try and understand their behavior.
[14/07/2005 1:36 PM] <Amazon> Bob would you like to take another question, or continue discussing User Experience?
[14/07/2005 1:36 PM] <goodbobman> Let's take another ?.
[14/07/2005 1:36 PM] <Amazon> If you have a question for Bob please say hand and I'll add you to the list
[14/07/2005 1:36 PM] <Amazon> killes: go ahead
[14/07/2005 1:36 PM] *mozillaman will as Morbus, at a convientient time
[14/07/2005 1:36 PM] <killes> ok.
[14/07/2005 1:36 PM] *mozillaman will ask Morbus's question, at a convientient time
[14/07/2005 1:37 PM] <killes> my question is: what does a usabilty expert have to say about options to show novice users different menus / things than expert ones?
[14/07/2005 1:37 PM] <killes> I had proposed this once,but it was shot down as being not user freindly.
[14/07/2005 1:37 PM] * KobusM raises hands - have a comment about this: <Morbus> to having 3 pages sequentially numbered vs. three sections of a single page? (sorry so late - was occupied)
[14/07/2005 1:37 PM] <goodbobman> Killes, you are asking about forking the UX based on...
[14/07/2005 1:37 PM] <goodbobman> expertise?
[14/07/2005 1:38 PM] <killes> yes
[14/07/2005 1:38 PM] <killes> Some programms offer this.
[14/07/2005 1:38 PM] <goodbobman> I think it locks you into fixed categories.
[14/07/2005 1:38 PM] <goodbobman> A user may be great in one area... and confused in another.
[14/07/2005 1:38 PM] <killes> possibly.
[14/07/2005 1:38 PM] <eaton> hand
[14/07/2005 1:38 PM] <goodbobman> So the draw back is the potential rigidness or lack of dynamism
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[14/07/2005 1:39 PM] <goodbobman> or the solution.
[14/07/2005 1:39 PM] <killes> My problem is that I am an expert user when it comes to Drupal and I would like to not see too many expanations and still would like myother users to see them.
[14/07/2005 1:39 PM] <goodbobman> Right.
[14/07/2005 1:39 PM] <goodbobman> A suggestion.
[14/07/2005 1:39 PM] <goodbobman> Offer the bare-bones, distilled, clear explanation for all to see.
[14/07/2005 1:39 PM] <goodbobman> And have more help a click away if needed.
[14/07/2005 1:39 PM] <goodbobman> The one-size fits all is lean enough not to get in the way.
[14/07/2005 1:40 PM] <killes> makes sense to me, thanks.
[14/07/2005 1:40 PM] <goodbobman> The more option is visible for your mom.
[14/07/2005 1:40 PM] <KobusM> *chuckle*
[14/07/2005 1:40 PM] * KobusM raises hand again
[14/07/2005 1:40 PM] <goodbobman> So you layer the UX that way without forking it.
[14/07/2005 1:40 PM] <goodbobman> more ?s
[14/07/2005 1:40 PM] * KobusM raises hand again
[14/07/2005 1:40 PM] <KobusM> can I speak?
[14/07/2005 1:40 PM] *mozillaman O_O
[14/07/2005 1:41 PM] <goodbobman> sure.
[14/07/2005 1:41 PM] <KobusM> Thanks... I was a bit occupied before, so I caught up in the conversation now. So, sorry if this topic is late...
[14/07/2005 1:41 PM] <Amazon> Bob, more questions?
[14/07/2005 1:41 PM] <KobusM> Morbus said: <Morbus> to having 3 pages sequentially numbered vs. three sections of a single page?
[14/07/2005 1:41 PM] <goodbobman> yes, so I can speak to that.
[14/07/2005 1:41 PM] <goodbobman> It depends on the content.
[14/07/2005 1:42 PM] <KobusM> From a usability perspective, it is usually better to have three pages than one page with 3 sections
[14/07/2005 1:42 PM] <goodbobman> You have to define the problem first and the solution 2nd.
[14/07/2005 1:42 PM] <goodbobman> For example...
[14/07/2005 1:42 PM] <KobusM> depending on the number of fields to fill out in a form
[14/07/2005 1:42 PM] <Amazon> eaton: I have your hand in queue
[14/07/2005 1:42 PM] <goodbobman> hold on, though...
[14/07/2005 1:42 PM] <goodbobman> I don't think you can just go by the number of questions.
[14/07/2005 1:42 PM] <goodbobman> For example...
[14/07/2005 1:43 PM] <goodbobman> A bank wanted to avoid forms at all costs.
[14/07/2005 1:43 PM] <goodbobman> And insisted on having a wizard...
[14/07/2005 1:43 PM] <goodbobman> To help users get accounts open.,
[14/07/2005 1:43 PM] <goodbobman> Users hated it because it felt slow, endless, uniformative...
[14/07/2005 1:43 PM] <goodbobman> They just wanted 2 or 3 good Web based forms.
[14/07/2005 1:44 PM] <KobusM> yes, but take the following scenario: There is a form where you have to fill out 50 fields. Let's say the power fails or your net connection dies after 44 fields, you have to start all over again. If you have 3 forms, saving when changing to the next form, the user has less to re-do
[14/07/2005 1:44 PM] <Amazon> hand
[14/07/2005 1:45 PM] <goodbobman> You're bring up performance issues...
[14/07/2005 1:45 PM] <KobusM> m'kay then, I just noted on Morbus' comment ;) Ignore my comment then
[14/07/2005 1:45 PM] <Amazon> ok
[14/07/2005 1:45 PM] <goodbobman> More ?s?
[14/07/2005 1:45 PM] <Amazon> eaton: go ahead
[14/07/2005 1:45 PM] <Amazon> please say hand if you have a question
[14/07/2005 1:46 PM] <mozillaman> Amazon: Don't forget Morbus'
[14/07/2005 1:46 PM] <eaton> A quick comment, still thinking about the 'mental map of drupal' that was talked about
[14/07/2005 1:46 PM] <goodbobman> right
[14/07/2005 1:47 PM] <eaton> Setup/administration/contribution/end user consuming of the site are four big areas of drupal that all seem to have their own clouds of concepts and such.
[14/07/2005 1:47 PM] <goodbobman> clouds of concepts is a good description.
[14/07/2005 1:47 PM] <goodbobman> It's helpful if possible to leverage existing user context
[14/07/2005 1:47 PM] <blogdiva> hand
[14/07/2005 1:48 PM] <goodbobman> that's outside of Drupal-land.
[14/07/2005 1:48 PM] <eaton> in my opinion , the taxonomy system is one of the powerful-but-tremendously-baffling things about the first two of thouse groups
[14/07/2005 1:48 PM] <goodbobman> what do you think would fix it or help users w/it?
[14/07/2005 1:49 PM] <blogdiva> HAND
[14/07/2005 1:49 PM] <eaton> I'm not sure, honestly, but providing some concrete examples of what function taxonomy serves and how it fits into the puzzle of a 'working, runnig site' would be helpful.
[14/07/2005 1:49 PM] <eaton> That might entail termonology tweaks, or example based/setup help
[14/07/2005 1:49 PM] <Amazon> Queue: Morbus, then Blogdiva
[14/07/2005 1:49 PM] <eaton> but it seems like a swiss army knkife for lots of seb site management problems with drupal.
[14/07/2005 1:49 PM] <eaton> that's all for me.
[14/07/2005 1:49 PM] <eaton> (er, website)
[14/07/2005 1:50 PM] <goodbobman> Good points! Users need concrete examples of
[14/07/2005 1:50 PM] <goodbobman> what they can do with the functionality.
[14/07/2005 1:50 PM] <Amazon> Bob we have 15 minutes left and two questions
[14/07/2005 1:50 PM] <goodbobman> More ?s
[14/07/2005 1:50 PM] <goodbobman> fire away.
[14/07/2005 1:50 PM] <Amazon> I'd like to make sure we get a list of tasks for the Drupal Docs team to go do after this
[14/07/2005 1:50 PM] <Amazon> Will we have time for both?
[14/07/2005 1:50 PM] <mozillaman> Morbus wanted me to ask his for him: "A real fear for me is dumbing down Drupal to the level of blog software. I've seen Drupal described numerous places as a piece of blog software, and I fear a lot of people come to Drupal, initially, seeing it as nothing more than WordPress with whistles. How do we address an incoming mental model that thinks they're getting a single graphite pencil when they've really got a full set of colored pencils?"
[14/07/2005 1:51 PM] <mozillaman> He's eating lunch
[14/07/2005 1:51 PM] <goodbobman> I can answer that quickly.
[14/07/2005 1:51 PM] <goodbobman> Don't dumb things down. Make visual tasks visual. Provide
[14/07/2005 1:51 PM] <goodbobman> a baseline of 1-size fits all help.
[14/07/2005 1:51 PM] <goodbobman> Have more help available on an opt-in basis.
[14/07/2005 1:51 PM] <goodbobman> Don't force feed UX.
[14/07/2005 1:52 PM] <goodbobman> But have it there for newbie users.
[14/07/2005 1:52 PM] <goodbobman> Shall we try the task list?
[14/07/2005 1:52 PM] <Amazon> BlogDiva: have you got a quick question?
[14/07/2005 1:52 PM] <blogdiva> ARGH! WTF! And pardon my English. You are here to server not to impose a certain geekatude on users.
[14/07/2005 1:52 PM] <blogdiva> This is one of my main frustrations with Drupal
[14/07/2005 1:53 PM] <blogdiva> there is a disregard for the obvious
[14/07/2005 1:53 PM] <blogdiva> because it is too easy
[14/07/2005 1:53 PM] <blogdiva> I am coming from a blogging background
[14/07/2005 1:53 PM] <blogdiva> hacking templates on MT and WP
[14/07/2005 1:53 PM] <blogdiva> and I have no fear of technology
[14/07/2005 1:53 PM] <blogdiva> but like many blogging users
[14/07/2005 1:53 PM] <goodbobman> I agree... The obvious can be the hardest thing to see.
[14/07/2005 1:53 PM] <blogdiva> who are moving to community sites
[14/07/2005 1:53 PM] <blogdiva> we have no time to learn something new everyday
[14/07/2005 1:53 PM] <blogdiva> take taxonomies
[14/07/2005 1:54 PM] <blogdiva> why in the world do i have to type in one category at a time
[14/07/2005 1:54 PM] <blogdiva> this is, to me, something quite basic
[14/07/2005 1:54 PM] <blogdiva> when people are setting blogs they can imput up to ten categories at a time
[14/07/2005 1:54 PM] <blogdiva> it saves time
[14/07/2005 1:54 PM] <goodbobman> That's a great example. Maybe that leads us into the task list, Kieran?
[14/07/2005 1:54 PM] <mozillaman> hand
[14/07/2005 1:54 PM] <blogdiva> it saves effort
[14/07/2005 1:54 PM] <blogdiva> i am not done
[14/07/2005 1:54 PM] <blogdiva> you have to hear this
[14/07/2005 1:55 PM] <blogdiva> this is something to me that needs fixing nowe
[14/07/2005 1:55 PM] <blogdiva> not only from the standpoint of dealing with data
[14/07/2005 1:55 PM] <blogdiva> but also from the standpoint of organizing people
[14/07/2005 1:56 PM] <blogdiva> this is about making life easier, no ]brainer not because it is stupid declasse or too base for you but because it is a standard in the industry
[14/07/2005 1:56 PM] <blogdiva> same with help pages
[14/07/2005 1:56 PM] <blogdiva> now why do i have to clink on 2 or three pages to get to the information
[14/07/2005 1:56 PM] <blogdiva> give it to me all in one page
[14/07/2005 1:57 PM] <blogdiva> or make it simple enought that the help document resides outside the software
[14/07/2005 1:57 PM] <--| killes has left #drupal-docs
[14/07/2005 1:57 PM] <blogdiva> so you can keep that locally on your computer
[14/07/2005 1:57 PM] <blogdiva> again, a standard that is passed over at Drupal
[14/07/2005 1:57 PM] <blogdiva> those two would do wonders for people like me
[14/07/2005 1:58 PM] <Amazon> blogdiva: we can get you an export of help
[14/07/2005 1:58 PM] <blogdiva> but don't get that for me
[14/07/2005 1:58 PM] <blogdiva> make it a standard
[14/07/2005 1:58 PM] <Amazon> blogdiva: ok
[14/07/2005 1:58 PM] <blogdiva> taxonomies on the fly
[14/07/2005 1:58 PM] <blogdiva> should be a standard
[14/07/2005 1:58 PM] <Amazon> blogdiva: was there a question for Bob? Taxonomies on the fly, got it.
[14/07/2005 1:59 PM] <blogdiva> no there was a comment more than anything else
[14/07/2005 1:59 PM] <blogdiva> obviously you all asked the right questions
[14/07/2005 1:59 PM] <blogdiva> not done but will stop for now
[14/07/2005 1:59 PM] <Amazon> Ok, thanks for your reality check
[14/07/2005 1:59 PM] <blogdiva> your welcome
[14/07/2005 1:59 PM] <Amazon> Bob, tasks for the Drupal docs team
[14/07/2005 1:59 PM] <eaton> hand (sorry, finally just summarized my thoughts into one statement - if there's no time ignore me)
[14/07/2005 2:00 PM] <Amazon> eaton: let's move it to the drupal docs list
[14/07/2005 2:00 PM] <Amazon> Bog: task
[14/07/2005 2:00 PM] <Amazon> Bob: tasks for us
[14/07/2005 2:00 PM] <goodbobman> Okay, tasks. Is there an inventory of major usability and UX hurdles?
[14/07/2005 2:00 PM] <goodbobman> Prioritized?
[14/07/2005 2:00 PM] <Amazon> No.
[14/07/2005 2:00 PM] <Amazon> But we could make one.
[14/07/2005 2:00 PM] <goodbobman> Great! That would be first.
[14/07/2005 2:01 PM] <Amazon> I'll take that responsibility
[14/07/2005 2:01 PM] <goodbobman> Take that list and define..
[14/07/2005 2:01 PM] <goodbobman> Short term and longer term solutions.
[14/07/2005 2:02 PM] <goodbobman> Help text and be a temporary bandaid on interface problems.
[14/07/2005 2:02 PM] <goodbobman> But serious UI issues should be solved deisgn wise.
[14/07/2005 2:02 PM] <goodbobman> On tasks,
[14/07/2005 2:02 PM] <goodbobman> documentation,
[14/07/2005 2:02 PM] <goodbobman> consider the differnet delivery platforms.
[14/07/2005 2:03 PM] <goodbobman> For example, on screen text, "more info", a pdf doc like blogdiva mentioned,
[14/07/2005 2:03 PM] <goodbobman> and/or wizards. All possible solutions.
[14/07/2005 2:03 PM] <goodbobman> I'm not quite sure..
[14/07/2005 2:04 PM] |<-- Malthus has left freenode ("Leaving")
[14/07/2005 2:04 PM] <mozillaman> Amazon: If you want I can personaly work on some wizard mockups.
[14/07/2005 2:04 PM] <goodbobman> I think the inventory has to come first and then figure things out from there...
[14/07/2005 2:04 PM] <goodbobman> Problem definition 1st and solutions 2nd.
[14/07/2005 2:04 PM] <Amazon> Ok. that's a good single task for everyone to focus on.
[14/07/2005 2:05 PM] *mozillaman nods
[14/07/2005 2:05 PM] <goodbobman> You could collect and compare these and then try and reality check
[14/07/2005 2:05 PM] <Amazon> If you want to volunteer with a list of major User Experience hurdles
[14/07/2005 2:05 PM] <Amazon> kieran at civicspacelabs dot org
[14/07/2005 2:05 PM] <Amazon> I'll post to the major lists
[14/07/2005 2:05 PM] <Amazon> and you can respond
[14/07/2005 2:05 PM] <goodbobman> Blogdiva, I could work with you to help document your issues
[14/07/2005 2:06 PM] <Amazon> goodbobman: thanks for your time today
[14/07/2005 2:06 PM] <Amazon> If you have additional questions please post to Drupal docs mailing list
[14/07/2005 2:06 PM] <goodbobman> My pleasure. Thank you all for your good contributions and questions.
[14/07/2005 2:06 PM] <eaton> I'm relatively new to things, how can I get to the drupal-docs list...? I'd like to post some thoughts on taxonomy issues...
[14/07/2005 2:06 PM] <eaton> thanks, goodbobman
[14/07/2005 2:06 PM] <Amazon> ok, best place would actually be the taxonomy project
[14/07/2005 2:06 PM] <goodbobman> signing off!
[14/07/2005 2:06 PM] <--| goodbobman has left #drupal-docs
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