[??] Re: [??] Re: [??] Re: [Wikizh-l] Chinese-language Wikipedia presents different view of history

中国政府应该比较喜欢听到这样的报道吧

2006/11/30, 艾小旺 <aixw007@xxxxxxxxx>:
> 各花入各眼。
>
> 2006/11/30, Andrew Lih <andrew.lih@xxxxxxxxx>:
> >
> > Lorenzarius,
> >
> > I'm inclined to agree with you, as I don't think the picture is as
> > gloomy as Howard French makes it out to be.  I talked with him for
> > almost an hour while he was reporting on this, as he was trying to
> > figure out the dynamic between different language versions.
> >
> > But let me ask you this -- how likely is it for Taiwan and HK-based
> > editors to edit controversial PRC-related articles? Is there active
> > and vigorous collaboration? Do you avoid it specifically? Are HK and
> > Taiwan editors perhaps not interested in them? I'm still trying to get
> > a good picture of how much cooperation there is on things that are PRC
> > history, even though HK and Taiwan folks might react to that. This is
> > a question to anyone on this list.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -Andrew
> >
> > On 11/30/06, Lawrence Lo <lorenzarius@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > I call this report biased BS. A wiki as we all know is continuously
> > > evolving, singling one edition of one article does not prove anything.
> > > For instance the last sentences in the opening paragraph of the
> > > current edition
> > > (
> http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E6%AF%9B%E6%B3%BD%E4%B8%9C&oldid=3020691)
> > > of the article in question now reads:
> > >
> > > He [Mao] was also the initiator of a series of political movements
> > > such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, resulting
> > > in the abnormal deaths of many Mainland people and great destructions
> > > to many Chinese cultural and historical monuments. He had a great
> > > influence on the 20th century's China and the world.
> > >
> > > And obviously omission does not equal self-censorship. Self-censorship
> > > is when a person knows something but intentionally avoids to mention
> > > it. But IMO the more realistic situation with most Mainland
> > > contributors is that they don't know that "something" to begin with.
> > > When a man is taught since birth that "A is right", how can you
> > > criticize him for not knowing that somebody in the other part of the
> > > world thinks that "B is right"? In fact, the Chinese Wikipedia is a
> > > great place for people from different parts of the Chinese-speaking
> > > world to get to know things that we didn't know, to understands things
> > > from the other perspectives.
> > >
> > > On 11/29/06, Andrew Lih <andrew.lih@xxxxxxxxx > wrote:
> > > > FYI, some of our own famous ZH Wikipedians mentioned...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/11/29/news/wiki.php
> > > >
> > > >  Chinese-language Wikipedia presents different view of history
> > > > By Howard W. French
> > > > The New York Times
> > > >
> > > > Just who was Mao Zedong?
> > > >
> > > > According to the English-language version of Wikipedia, the popular
> > > > online encyclopedia, he was a victorious military and political leader
> > > > who founded China's modern Communist state. He was also a man many saw
> > > > as "a mass murderer, holding his leadership accountable for the deaths
> > > > of tens of millions of innocent Chinese."
> > > >
> > > > Switch to Wikipedia in Chinese, and one discovers a very different
> > > > man. There, Mao Zedong's reputation is unsullied by any mention of a
> > > > death toll in the great purges of the 1950s and 1960s, or for what
> > > > many historians call the greatest famine in human history.
> > > >
> > > > In recent weeks, the Chinese government has demonstrated its hostility
> > > > toward the emergence of a credible source of reference material that
> > > > escapes its control by frequently blocking access to Wikipedia, whose
> > > > Chinese version, though still far smaller than its English-language
> > > > counterpart, is growing by leaps and bounds.
> > > >
> > > > But on sensitive questions of China's modern history or on hot-button
> > > > issues, the Chinese version diverges so dramatically from its English
> > > > counterpart that it sometimes reads as if it were approved by the
> > > > censors themselves.
> > > >
> > > > This gulf in information and perspective comes across powerfully in
> > > > the entry on Mao, which is consistently one of the most frequently
> > > > searched and edited topics in the Chinese version, and in the entry on
> > > > historical watersheds, like the Tiananmen Square massacre, the Great
> > > > Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.
> > > >
> > > > Chinese Wikipedia users and critics say that the differences highlight
> > > > the resilience here of a system of information control whose reach
> > > > goes well beyond simple censorship.
> > > >
> > > > In each of its language versions, Wikipedia is collaboratively written
> > > > and edited by online enthusiasts, and contributors to the
> > > > Chinese-language site explain the differences in content by citing the
> > > > powerful influence of Chinese education, which often provides a neatly
> > > > sanitized national perspective on sensitive aspects of the country's
> > > > past.
> > > >
> > > > This parochialism is reinforced by the blocking of foreign Web sites,
> > > > and by the conformism of the carefully censored mass media.
> > > > Alternative viewpoints are sometimes available, but usually only to a
> > > > restricted circle of people who have the means and determination to
> > > > seek them out.
> > > >
> > > > For some, the Chinese version of Wikipedia was intended as just such a
> > > > resource, but its tame approach to sensitive topics has sparked a
> > > > fierce debate in the world of online mavens over its objectivity and
> > > > thoroughness.
> > > >
> > > > In a recent discussion on the encyclopedia's Web site about the Mao
> > > > legacy, a user with the online name Manchurian Tiger wrote, "If anyone
> > > > can prove that Mao's political movements didn't kill so many people,
> > > > I'm willing to delete the wording that 'millions of people were
> > > > killed.'" Rather than contribute to encyclopedias, those who wish to
> > > > pay tribute to Mao, he added, should "go to his mausoleum."
> > > >
> > > > Another user replied angrily: "If you want to release your emotions,
> > > > use a bulletin board. Wikipedia is not your toilet." In the end, the
> > > > entry on Mao included no death toll from either famine or political
> > > > purges.
> > > >
> > > > Indeed, in its present form, the Chinese Wikipedia introduction to Mao
> > > > Zedong could hardly be more anodyne: "One of the main founders and
> > > > leaders of the Communist Party of China, the People's Liberation Army
> > > > and the People's Republic of China," it reads. "He introduced a series
> > > > of political movements such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural
> > > > Revolution. He had a great influence over 20th-century China and the
> > > > world."
> > > >
> > > > On the evidence of entries like this, for the moment, the fight over
> > > > editorial direction of Wikipedia in Chinese is being won by
> > > > enthusiasts who practice self-censorship.
> > > >
> > > > "Most of the people who contribute to Wikipedia rarely touch upon
> > > > political topics," said Yuan Mingli, a frequent contributor from
> > > > Shanghai. "They prefer to write about things like technology. There
> > > > are other things in life."
> > > >
> > > > Others denounce compromises on content as a deviation from the
> > > > original mission of Wikipedia, which they say is to spread reliable
> > > > information and to seek truth. In any case, they add, self- censorship
> > > > has already proved naïve because the government still frequently
> > > > blocks access for most Chinese Internet users.
> > > >
> > > > "There is a lot of confusion about whether they should obey the
> > > > neutral point of view or offer some compromises to the government,"
> > > > said Isaac Mao, a well-known Chinese blogger and user of the
> > > > encyclopedia. "To the local Wikipedians, the first objective is to
> > > > make it well-known among Chinese, to get people to understand the
> > > > principles of Wikipedia step by step, and not to get the thing blocked
> > > > by the government. The government doesn't buy into their attitude."
> > > >
> > > > After Mao Zedong, few questions are treated as more sacrosanct in
> > > > China than the status of Taiwan, which every pupil is taught is
> > > > irrevocably part of China. To publicly suggest that Taiwanese have any
> > > > historical basis for asserting their independence from China would be
> > > > a career-ending offense for anyone in academia or in the media.
> > > >
> > > > The English-language version of the encyclopedia speaks of a Japanese
> > > > shipwreck off Taiwan in 1871, in which 54 crew members were beheaded
> > > > by Taiwanese aborigines. Japan demanded compensation from China, only
> > > > to be told that Taiwan was not within China's jurisdiction. The
> > > > Chinese-language entry on Taiwan, meanwhile, is silent on the
> > > > jurisdiction question.
> > > >
> > > > Similarly, the English-language Wikipedia mentions the settlement of
> > > > Taiwan by aborigines who are genetically related to Malaysians, about
> > > > 4,000 years ago. It also places the first meaningful settlement of the
> > > > island by Chinese in the 16th century.
> > > >
> > > > The Chinese version of Wikipedia, though, merely speaks of cultural
> > > > affinities with Malaysians and speculates about the possible
> > > > exploration of the island by Chinese as far back as the third century.
> > > >
> > > > A parallel, and purely homegrown, effort at creating an online
> > > > encyclopedia in China, Baidu Baike, skirts controversies like these
> > > > altogether. Baidu Baike, which is owned by the biggest Internet search
> > > > engine company in China, asserts that Taiwan's original inhabitants
> > > > "came from mainland China directly or indirectly," and not from
> > > > Malaysia.
> > > >
> > > > Similarly, a user who searches for the Tiananmen Square massacre will
> > > > find no entry.
> > > >
> > > > As online reference sites grow in popularity here, Baidu Baike
> > > > benefits from government efforts to block Wikipedia, just as the same
> > > > company's search engine once benefited from similar blockage of
> > > > Google.
> > > >
> > > > Baidu Baike, much of whose content appears to be copied directly from
> > > > Wikipedia, would not release detailed user statistics, saying only
> > > > that it has "several million" users each day. A spokeswoman for the
> > > > company, Zhang Yan, said it is guided by the editorial policy of not
> > > > "judging the existing national system with malice."
> > > >
> > > > Asked to explain what this meant, Zhang said, "Anyone who is Chinese
> knows."
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikizh-l mailing list
> > > > Wikizh-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikizh-l
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lorenzarius
> > > Tel: +852 95825791
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> 涼風起天末，君子意如何
> 鴻雁几時到，江湖秋水多
>
> >
>


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