Subject: My Beef with Razor - msg#00024

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Re: Too many false positives...goodbye, razor

On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 01:26:05PM -0500, Matt Kettler wrote: > Nice, those numbers are quite informative Theo. Makes me think that I was > right to set my min_cf to 11, effectively eliminating the noise present in > range_01_10, which seems to have a pretty bad S/O. > > It also makes me think that upping my min_cf past 11 is also well worth it. :) Just remember, that data is on a corpus of messages that are scanned all at one time. ie: the "live" Razor results are likely to be different due to # of reports, revokes, etc. -- Randomly Generated Tagline: "I prefer to call it the Prime Suggestion" - Kirk pgpxOonpLua5O.pgp Description: PGP signature

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Re: My Beef with Razor

David, The reason your reports are not reflected immediately is because you don't have enough trust in the system. Building up trust is an important component of a collaborative system, because it's the only mechanism that ensures we have a clean database for all to use. As a new user, it might be a little frustrating, but if you keep up the reporting in the long run your decisions will be valued more (and reflected more immediately). cheers, vipul On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 04:35:35PM -0600, David Dellanave wrote: > I think I should preface this email with who I am and what I am doing > with Razor. I'm a long time razor user, new to the Razor list. > > The reason I joined the list is because I am working for a company that > is developing a sort of a collection of spam filtering software. Not > sure how much more I can say. I'm basically the lead developer on the > project. > > My problem with Razor is in the reporting/revoking system and the TES. > While I understand that the TES is critical to preventing spammers from > abusing razor and making it meaningless, I think it causes problems for > everyone else. This morning I had a spam about brutal rape slip through > the filters. After adding it to razor, I later tested by bouncing it > through the gateway I am developing on, and it still hasn't been added > to Razor. The whole idea behind Razor is that someone can add a spam to > the database, and no one else has to see it. But if they don't get > added like that, what's the point? > > The reporting/revoking is especially important to me because of the > amount of spam I am seeing going through during development. I'd like > to be able to add spam and revoke a couple of false positives, and see > it make a difference. > > Maybe someone can clarify how this system works better than I think. I > apologize for the long winded post. > -- > David@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > www.dellanave.com > FED5 FF73 7A92 5B11 844D 068E 3AEC 268E AAF0 DA59 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > Welcome to geek heaven. > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > _______________________________________________ > Razor-users mailing list > Razor-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/razor-users -- Ummm, well, OK. The network's the network, the computer's the computer. Sorry for the confusion. -- Sun Microsystems ------------------------------------------------------- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf

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Too many false positives...goodbye, razor

After many months of using razor, it has become apparent to me that there are too many irresponsible users, or that razor is doing an inadequate job of compensating for them. I'm seeing far too many false positives, including Merriam-Webster's "Word of the Day", eBay outbid notification, and E*TRADE dividend notices...all of which are important personal messages or opt-in mailing lists. False positives make up about 1/4-1/3 of the "spam" blocked by razor on my system. Yes, I've been reporting spam and revoking non-spam. I've done everything I can from my end, and it's just not working for me. So thanks for the discussion and the help for the past few months, but I'm going to try something else. I just wanted to let the key people to know why. For what it's worth, I'll probably ditch SpamAssassin too, because of the ridiculous system load even when using spamd/spamc. Goodbye and good luck, john@xxxxxxxxx John Stimson http://www.idsfa.net/~john/ HMC Physics '94 ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! http://www.vasoftware.com

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Re: My Beef with Razor

David, The reason your reports are not reflected immediately is because you don't have enough trust in the system. Building up trust is an important component of a collaborative system, because it's the only mechanism that ensures we have a clean database for all to use. As a new user, it might be a little frustrating, but if you keep up the reporting in the long run your decisions will be valued more (and reflected more immediately). cheers, vipul On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 04:35:35PM -0600, David Dellanave wrote: > I think I should preface this email with who I am and what I am doing > with Razor. I'm a long time razor user, new to the Razor list. > > The reason I joined the list is because I am working for a company that > is developing a sort of a collection of spam filtering software. Not > sure how much more I can say. I'm basically the lead developer on the > project. > > My problem with Razor is in the reporting/revoking system and the TES. > While I understand that the TES is critical to preventing spammers from > abusing razor and making it meaningless, I think it causes problems for > everyone else. This morning I had a spam about brutal rape slip through > the filters. After adding it to razor, I later tested by bouncing it > through the gateway I am developing on, and it still hasn't been added > to Razor. The whole idea behind Razor is that someone can add a spam to > the database, and no one else has to see it. But if they don't get > added like that, what's the point? > > The reporting/revoking is especially important to me because of the > amount of spam I am seeing going through during development. I'd like > to be able to add spam and revoke a couple of false positives, and see > it make a difference. > > Maybe someone can clarify how this system works better than I think. I > apologize for the long winded post. > -- > David@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > www.dellanave.com > FED5 FF73 7A92 5B11 844D 068E 3AEC 268E AAF0 DA59 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > Welcome to geek heaven. > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > _______________________________________________ > Razor-users mailing list > Razor-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/razor-users -- Ummm, well, OK. The network's the network, the computer's the computer. Sorry for the confusion. -- Sun Microsystems ------------------------------------------------------- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf