Subject: Re: [london-hack-space] Deprecation of sleeping as
a tolerated activity - msg#00340
The problem with an "exceptional circumstances" clause is that who
defines exceptional? IIRC one of the current sleepers is actually
homeless due to the BOI eviction - is that exceptional circumstances or
not? Some people will say yes, others will say it's part and parcel of
taking part in that kind of activity and there are plenty of homeless
shelters in London. I think it just needs to be a blanket ban unless the
four horsemen are laying siege to Cremer St or public transport grinds
to a halt for no apparent reason (we all knew it was going to snow last
weekend!)
On 07.02.2012 12:01, Martin Dittus wrote:
Yeah, after talking to a few people I ended up surprised by the
number of individuals that ended up in this situation in the last few
weeks. It's more than a handful.
On 7 Feb 2012, at 11:52, Paul Dart wrote:
On 7 February 2012 11:41, Mike <hackspace@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I believe the rules say sleeping should only be done in
"exceptional
circumstances". I find it hard to believe that there have been
10-20
exceptional circumstances this month.
You have to be a bit careful with things like that. Assume it was 20
different people. With 400 members now, that works out as an
'exceptional circumstance' once per 20months per person (assuming
completely even distribution blah blah statistics general get out
clauses).
I think with my visits to the space once every couple of years there
might well be an occasion where something goes wrong for some
reason... How often is exceptional? :)
Hackspace is now big enough that this issue (amongst others) is a
problem.
I'm already regretting typing this as I'm sure it will lead onto
even
more discussion.
Paul
Thread at a glance:
Previous Message by Date:
Re: [london-hack-space] Deprecation of sleeping as a tolerated activity
Yeah, after talking to a few people I ended up surprised by the number of
individuals that ended up in this situation in the last few weeks. It's more
than a handful.
On 7 Feb 2012, at 11:52, Paul Dart wrote:
> On 7 February 2012 11:41, Mike <hackspace@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> I believe the rules say sleeping should only be done in "exceptional
>> circumstances". I find it hard to believe that there have been 10-20
>> exceptional circumstances this month.
>
> You have to be a bit careful with things like that. Assume it was 20
> different people. With 400 members now, that works out as an
> 'exceptional circumstance' once per 20months per person (assuming
> completely even distribution blah blah statistics general get out
> clauses).
>
> I think with my visits to the space once every couple of years there
> might well be an occasion where something goes wrong for some
> reason... How often is exceptional? :)
>
> Hackspace is now big enough that this issue (amongst others) is a problem.
>
> I'm already regretting typing this as I'm sure it will lead onto even
> more discussion.
>
> Paul
Next Message by Date:
Re: [london-hack-space] learning to use the scroll saw
Hello Sci,
I was wondering if I could get a good enough cut by bending the metal with
your hand brake then cutting with snips. Or would it not help?
On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Sci <sci@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On 07/02/2012 10:51, Nigel Worsley wrote:
> >> I heard there was a multiformer at the space at one point, has it died
> >> and gone?
> >
> > I loaned one to the space, somebody broke it last August and said they
> > would replace it.
> >
> > It looked repairable to me though, and was still usable for anything
> > except shearing.
> >
> > Nigle
> >
> >
>
> IIRC it was indeed due to be repaired but someone threw it out during
> one of the workshop purges.
>
> Since it was surplus to my current needs I brought in my sheet-metal
> brake to partially fill in for it. Only bends sheet metal though.
>
> Sci
>
Previous Message by Thread:
Re: [london-hack-space] Deprecation of sleeping as a tolerated activity
Yeah, after talking to a few people I ended up surprised by the number of
individuals that ended up in this situation in the last few weeks. It's more
than a handful.
On 7 Feb 2012, at 11:52, Paul Dart wrote:
> On 7 February 2012 11:41, Mike <hackspace@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> I believe the rules say sleeping should only be done in "exceptional
>> circumstances". I find it hard to believe that there have been 10-20
>> exceptional circumstances this month.
>
> You have to be a bit careful with things like that. Assume it was 20
> different people. With 400 members now, that works out as an
> 'exceptional circumstance' once per 20months per person (assuming
> completely even distribution blah blah statistics general get out
> clauses).
>
> I think with my visits to the space once every couple of years there
> might well be an occasion where something goes wrong for some
> reason... How often is exceptional? :)
>
> Hackspace is now big enough that this issue (amongst others) is a problem.
>
> I'm already regretting typing this as I'm sure it will lead onto even
> more discussion.
>
> Paul
Next Message by Thread:
Re: [london-hack-space] Deprecation of sleeping as a tolerated activity
On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 11:52 AM, Paul Dart <pauldart@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On 7 February 2012 11:41, Mike <hackspace@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> I believe the rules say sleeping should only be done in "exceptional
>> circumstances". I find it hard to believe that there have been 10-20
>> exceptional circumstances this month.
>
> You have to be a bit careful with things like that. Assume it was 20
> different people. With 400 members now, that works out as an
> 'exceptional circumstance' once per 20months per person (assuming
> completely even distribution blah blah statistics general get out
> clauses).
>
> I think with my visits to the space once every couple of years there
> might well be an occasion where something goes wrong for some
> reason... How often is exceptional? :)
>
> Hackspace is now big enough that this issue (amongst others) is a problem.
>
> I'm already regretting typing this as I'm sure it will lead onto even
> more discussion.
>
Exactly - this is why we've been reluctant to propose an outright ban.
We've always targeted repeat offenders, but during cold weeks there
are now enough of them to outnumber the people telling them not to
sleep. On recent nights the space has only been open (and consuming
electricity) for people who are waiting to crash out.
We've hit a limit of scale, and I think the only way to resolve this
is a shift in culture.
Mark