Why Squeak is so sloooow?

Well. I have tested in other PCs with 3.8.
With this centrino 1.8Ghz, this evening I have tested
with 3.8, 3.9 and 3.7. (not croquet)

I'm not speaking about calculate power of squeak (that
I know is very good), is only a graphical question, in
sum up, to move pixels from here and there...


Results:

In three versions I find slowdown when I load some
blobs and one bouncingAthoms. Actually, bouncingAthoms
is what I take as a reference, because you can see
easily if "athoms" goes faster or slower. 
BUT there are some diferences between versions.

3.7 run very fast, but the work of the CPU increase
quickly even shaking the mouse from left to right.

In 3.8 I find slowdown specially when move windows.

3.9.7 in my case is the best election. Mouse shakeing
waste ZERO cpu, and shaking windows too. But, if move
other graphics objets the cpu increase quickly, for
example, a Tetris window. I have notice that if you
load the Tetris game and keep press the down key for
changing a position of a tetris piece constantly,
wastes the half of my CPU. In some games, over all, in
arcade games, you need sprites changing contantly, I
supouse that it would be a real load for squeak. 



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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Antonio San.)
>    2. Re: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Offray Vladimir
> Luna C?rdenas)
>    3. webdav monitcello repo problems. (Bakki Kudva)
>    4. RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Antonio San.)
>    5. Re: RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Offray
> Vladimir Luna C?rdenas)
>    6. Re: RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Brad
> Fuller)
>    7. Re: RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (David
> Shaffer)
>    8. Re: RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Brad
> Fuller)
>    9. Re: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Milan
> Zimmermann)
> 
> 
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:18:48 +0200 (CEST)
> From: "Antonio San." <supercorreode@xxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [Newbies] Why Squeak is so sloooow?
> To: beginners@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Message-ID:
>
<20060921141848.14937.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> I don't know if occurs the same in windows, but in
> linux squeak is very slow. 
> I mean that all the thinks related to move pixels
> over
> the screen causes cpu overheat in a desmesurated way
> and a big latency. 
> It is specially bad for videogames developed in
> squeak
> because the movement of a picture imply a speed down
> of other pictures in the game.
> 
> I thought that it was caused by my old PC. But I
> have
> tested in five diferents machines, included a
> powerful
> P4 with 2.8Ghz and 512 Mb RAM, with the same
> results.
> 
> Is X system (xfree86 and xorg) a bad way for execute
> squeak? Occur the same in windows?
> 
> 
> 
>       
>       
>               
> ______________________________________________ 
> LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. 
> Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por
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> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:27:18 -0500
> From: Offray Vladimir Luna C?rdenas
> <offray.luna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [Newbies] Why Squeak is so sloooow?
> To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the
> most basic
>       questionsabout
> Squeak."<beginners@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Message-ID: <4512A146.3090809@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain;     charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
> 
> 
> Hi Antonio,
> 
> Do you have any of these games to test? I have been
> using Squeak on 
> Linux without any slowness problem.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Offray
> 
> Antonio San. escribió:
> > I don't know if occurs the same in windows, but in
> > linux squeak is very slow. 
> > I mean that all the thinks related to move pixels
> over
> > the screen causes cpu overheat in a desmesurated
> way
> > and a big latency. 
> > It is specially bad for videogames developed in
> squeak
> > because the movement of a picture imply a speed
> down
> > of other pictures in the game.
> >
> > I thought that it was caused by my old PC. But I
> have
> > tested in five diferents machines, included a
> powerful
> > P4 with 2.8Ghz and 512 Mb RAM, with the same
> results.
> >
> > Is X system (xfree86 and xorg) a bad way for
> execute
> > squeak? Occur the same in windows?
> >
> >
> >
> >     
> >     
> >             
> > ______________________________________________ 
> > LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. 
> > Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por
> minuto. 
> > http://es.voice.yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Beginners mailing list
> > Beginners@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
>
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
> >
> >   
> 
> 
> ___________________________________
> 
> AVISO LEGAL: El presente correo electronico no
> representa la opinion o el consentimiento oficial de
> la PONTIFICIA UNIVERSIDAD JAVERIANA. Este mensaje es
> confidencial y puede contener informacion
> privilegiada la cual no puede ser usada ni divulgada
> a personas distintas de su destinatario. Esta
> prohibida la retencion, grabacion, utilizacion,
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:32:29 -0400
> From: "Bakki Kudva" <bakki.kudva@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [Newbies] webdav monitcello repo problems.
> To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the
> most basic questions
>       about   Squeak."
> <beginners@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Message-ID:
> 
>
<f7f43c920609210732x3d07153el3e88f6ae341ee9f5@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
> 
> I have a webdav dir on apache2 on Debian Sarge. I
> can access it from
> another machine using cadaver and browse the dir.
> However if I try to
> use Monticello on it I get error: could not access
> http://....
> 
> I am using an IP address since I don't have fqdn for
> it..yet.
> 
> I added the repository to monticello using
> http://ip-address/path with
> user name and pwd. I am using basic authentication
> on the server and
> have enabled put. I could not find anything on
> google and wiresong
> which helped. Is there something I am overlooking?
> 
> tia,
> 
> bakki
> 
> PS: posted to dev list previously
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:22:27 +0200 (CEST)
> From: "Antonio San." <supercorreode@xxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [Newbies] RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow?
> To: beginners@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Message-ID:
>
<20060921152227.10121.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> I haven't any game, indeed I'm going to look for a
> good environment for game-develop learning ... and I
> think that squeak could be a very very useful
> project
> for spending efforts and time.
>  
> But I have done the test with the "games" inside
> squeak: BouncingAtoms and Blob.
> 
> Only 1 BouncingAtoms and 3 Blobs are enough for
> getting an important slowdown in all objets in the
> screen (Centrino 1.8 Ghz with 512Mb RAM)
> 
> It would be interesting check if the high CPU use
> continues when you enter in an other project giving
> in
> background blobs working. But I don't know how to do
> that, because when I enter in an other project blobs
> stop.
> 
> 
> PD. How can I do for getting my reply under the same
> topic in the list and not in other thread? 
> 
> 
> 
> >Hi Antonio,
> 
> >Do you have any of these games to test? I have been
> >using Squeak on 
> >Linux without any slowness problem.
> 
> >Cheers,
> 
> >Offray
> 
> 
>               
> ______________________________________________ 
> LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. 
> Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por
> minuto. 
> http://es.voice.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:45:10 -0500
> From: Offray Vladimir Luna C?rdenas
> <offray.luna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [Newbies] RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow?
> To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the
> most basic
>       questionsabout
> Squeak."<beginners@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Message-ID: <4512B386.6090307@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain;     charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
> 
> 
> Hi Antonio,
> 
> The German company Impara has developed a lot of
> games in Squeak[1]. I 
> don't know if any of the Impara people is here, but
> if this is the case 
> may be they can make a point about Squeak as a game
> development platform
> 
> [1] http://www.impara.de/references.html
> 
> I think that Squeak is nice for games development
> and some friends and 
> me will try to learn and use it for a Free Software
> CreativeCommons Game 
> (but this is a slow process, don't hold your
> breath). May be you can try 
> Python and Panda3D also. But from a cognitive point
> of view, I can't see 
> any more friendlier that Squeak.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Offray
> 
> Pdt: I don't know what's wrong with the threads of
> your mails, other 
> seems tho behave properly... :-/
> 
> Antonio San. escribió:
> > I haven't any game, indeed I'm going to look for a
> > good environment for game-develop learning ... and
> I
> > think that squeak could be a very very useful
> project
> > for spending efforts and time.
> >  
> > But I have done the test with the "games" inside
> > squeak: BouncingAtoms and Blob.
> >
> > Only 1 BouncingAtoms and 3 Blobs are enough for
> > getting an important slowdown in all objets in the
> > screen (Centrino 1.8 Ghz with 512Mb RAM)
> >
> > It would be interesting check if the high CPU use
> > continues when you enter in an other project
> giving in
> > background blobs working. But I don't know how to
> do
> > that, because when I enter in an other project
> blobs
> > stop.
> >
> >
> > PD. How can I do for getting my reply under the
> same
> > topic in the list and not in other thread? 
> >
> >
> >
> >   
> >> Hi Antonio,
> >>     
> >
> >   
> >> Do you have any of these games to test? I have
> been
> >> using Squeak on 
> >> Linux without any slowness problem.
> >>     
> >
> >   
> >> Cheers,
> >>     
> >
> >   
> >> Offray
> >>     
> >
> >
> >             
> > ______________________________________________ 
> > LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. 
> > Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por
> minuto. 
> > http://es.voice.yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Beginners mailing list
> > Beginners@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
>
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
> >
> >   
> 
> 
> ___________________________________
> 
> AVISO LEGAL: El presente correo electronico no
> representa la opinion o el consentimiento oficial de
> la PONTIFICIA UNIVERSIDAD JAVERIANA. Este mensaje es
> confidencial y puede contener informacion
> privilegiada la cual no puede ser usada ni divulgada
> a personas distintas de su destinatario. Esta
> prohibida la retencion, grabacion, utilizacion,
> aprovechamiento o divulgacion con cualquier
> proposito. Si por error recibe este mensaje, por
> favor destruya su contenido y avise a su remitente.
> En este aviso legal se omiten intencionalmente las
> tildes.
> 
> Este mensaje ha sido revisado por un sistema
> antivirus, por lo que su contenido esta libre de
> virus.
> This e-mail has been scanned by an antivirus system,
> so its contents is free of viruses.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 08:47:37 -0700
> From: Brad Fuller <brad@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [Newbies] RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow?
> To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the
> most basic questions
>       about   Squeak."
> <beginners@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Message-ID: <4512B419.8020809@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Antonio San. wrote:
> > I haven't any game, indeed I'm going to look for a
> > good environment for game-develop learning ... and
> I
> > think that squeak could be a very very useful
> project
> > for spending efforts and time.
> >  
> > But I have done the test with the "games" inside
> > squeak: BouncingAtoms and Blob.
> >
> > Only 1 BouncingAtoms and 3 Blobs are enough for
> > getting an important slowdown in all objets in the
> > screen (Centrino 1.8 Ghz with 512Mb RAM)
> >
> > It would be interesting check if the high CPU use
> > continues when you enter in an other project
> giving in
> > background blobs working. But I don't know how to
> do
> > that, because when I enter in an other project
> blobs
> > stop.
> >
> >   
> Maybe you should do some proper scientific tests on
> your specific needs.
> What type of game are you going to create?
> 
> -- 
> brad fuller
> sonaural: www.sonaural.com
> personal: www.bradfuller.com
>           www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2184
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:55:40 -0400
> From: David Shaffer <cdshaffer@xxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [Newbies] RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow?
> To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the
> most basic questions
>       about   Squeak."
> <beginners@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Message-ID: <4512B5FC.1010700@xxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Brad Fuller wrote:
> > Maybe you should do some proper scientific tests
> on your specific needs.
> > What type of game are you going to create?
> >
> >   
> You're certainly right Brad but let me add that the
> Squeak 3.9 image is
> unbearably slow on my linux-based laptop (2Ghz
> Pentium 4M, 1Gb RAM). 
> I've even tried VM's from 3.8 to Ian's recent 3.9
> release.  It is too
> slow for simple window operations and causes a
> gastly amount of CPU
> utilization even under lite GUI use.  Antonio might
> be reflecting on
> this same perception of slowness and frankly I'm
> sure that any amount of
> "proper scientific testing" is going to reveal that
> it feels like
> walking though mud ;-)
> 
> Anyway I'm still using a 3.7 image for development. 
> Nice and snappy.
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:07:52 -0700
> From: Brad Fuller <brad@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [Newbies] RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow?
> To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the
> most basic questions
>       about   Squeak."
> <beginners@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Message-ID: <4512B8D8.4020401@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> David Shaffer wrote:
> > Brad Fuller wrote:
> >   
> >> Maybe you should do some proper scientific tests
> on your specific needs.
> >> What type of game are you going to create?
> >>
> >>   
> >>     
> > You're certainly right Brad but let me add that
> the Squeak 3.9 image is
> > unbearably slow on my linux-based laptop (2Ghz
> Pentium 4M, 1Gb RAM). 
> > I've even tried VM's from 3.8 to Ian's recent 3.9
> release.  It is too
> > slow for simple window operations and causes a
> gastly amount of CPU
> > utilization even under lite GUI use.  Antonio
> might be reflecting on
> > this same perception of slowness and frankly I'm
> sure that any amount of
> > "proper scientific testing" is going to reveal
> that it feels like
> > walking though mud ;-)
> >
> > Anyway I'm still using a 3.7 image for
> development.  Nice and snappy.
> >   
> Ok, so I haven't used 3.9 really. What's the
> problem? What changed from
> 3.7 to 3.9. 3.8 used the 3.7 VM so that's probably
> not it.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 12:23:46 -0400
> From: Milan Zimmermann
> <milan.zimmermann@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [Newbies] Why Squeak is so sloooow?
> To: beginners@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Message-ID:
> <200609211223.47134.milan.zimmermann@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Hi Antonio,
> 
> Which VM version are you using - could you try to
> run, in command line:
> 
> squeak -version
> 
> And report results, thanks. Older versions of VM
> caused high CPU use, but I 
> never had a "cpu overheat in a desmesurated way" :)
> - new version 3.9 is 
> fine.
> 
> Many people on squeak-dev including me use Squeak on
> Linux, it certainly is 
> reasonably fast for me (e.g. faster than Ruby,
> although I think you are 
> talking mostly about graphical stuff?)
> 
> Also, in case you are using OpenCroquet
> http://opencroquet.org make sure you 
> have OpenGL driver installed correctly. If you use
> straight squeak, is it 
> slow for you even with a fresh image?
> http://squeak.org/Download
> 
> 
> 
> On 2006 September 21 10:18, Antonio San. wrote:
> > I don't know if occurs the same in windows, but in
> > linux squeak is very slow.
> > I mean that all the thinks related to move pixels
> over
> > the screen causes cpu overheat in a desmesurated
> way
> > and a big latency.
> > It is specially bad for videogames developed in
> squeak
> > because the movement of a picture imply a speed
> down
> > of other pictures in the game.
> >
> > I thought that it was caused by my old PC. But I
> have
> > tested in five diferents machines, included a
> powerful
> > P4 with 2.8Ghz and 512 Mb RAM, with the same
> results.
> >
> > Is X system (xfree86 and xorg) a bad way for
> execute
> > squeak? Occur the same in windows?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo.
> > Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por
> minuto.
> > http://es.voice.yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Beginners mailing list
> > Beginners@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
>
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Beginners mailing list
> Beginners@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
> 
> 
> End of Beginners Digest, Vol 5, Issue 28
> ****************************************
> 



                
______________________________________________ 
LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. 
Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. 
http://es.voice.yahoo.com