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Re: Thought on future of XMLC: msg#00085
java.enhydra.xmlc
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Subject: |
Re: Thought on future of XMLC |
Hi Chris,
Is this feature sort of an alternative to Barracuda's compile-time
Localization? I'm curious as to what all is going on with your
runtime Locale modifications. Any chance you can provide a sample
webapp showing this basic functionality?
Jake
At 06:28 PM 11/21/2002 +0000, you wrote:
David,
That sounds like a great idea and while we are on the subject I like to
make another suggetsed enhancement. I hope I don't bore people who have
already heard this because I have mentioned it before ;) The enhancement
is being able to create LazyDOM master templates at runtime as
based on a compiled LazyDOM master template. The functional requirment
for this is that at runtime our application needs to make a number of
alterations to a DOM master template, such as Locale tranformation and
client browser modifications, after which it is cached as a LazyDOM
master and can be used like a normal compile time LazyDOM. This allows
the flexibility to create LazyDOM master templates at any stage that is
convenient for the particular application. We have already patched our
version of XMLC to support this and we would very much like this
functionality included in any future version of XMLC.
Cheers,
Chris
David H. Young wrote:
Chris,
you bring out my number one concern... xmlc was created (during Lutris'
consulting days) as an alternative strategy to "templating"
approaches like jsp and jolt/jddi. We learned a lot from
building jolt (before jsp was available) and using it in an early
consulting gig at FedEx...
The target for xmlc was the interaction between html designers and java
developers. It's obvious that you and others are taking advantage
of xmlc's features to simplify that relationship. Another huge win
was the ability to support multiple presentation types (wml, html, xml,
svg, and even flash/xml). I'm concerned about a bottom-up approach
to re-thinking XMLC's internals might override what xmlc is all about and
what makes it a worthy alternative to jsp.
My recommendation to David, Richard and friends:
-> let's start a requirements document for xmlc 3.X and break it
into sections to deal with supportability/maintainability, developer,
device requirements and presentation designer requirements.
-> let's then make an announcement on theserverside.com for comments
on the requirements document, indicating that we're look for input from
those that deal with designer/developer interface in web application
development. I think it would serve as a nice way to resurrect a
bit of curiosity about xmlc. I know the folks at that site and they
are dying for content... it's pretty bad when they're featuring an
interview with their own people.
David
Chris Webb wrote:
Yep. It's a good feature because it
allows our clients to create their
own look and feels and then test conformance against our reference
implementation. In most cases this means we do not have to be
involved
in the process, which makes them happy and us even happier.
This process does need to be improved a little. At the moment the
compiler signals there is an incompatibility by stopping with the
first
missing access method or return type and displays a message which
is
fine for a Java developer but not to a mark up document designer.
It
would be great if all incompatibilities were discovered in one pass
and
presented in much more readable manner, i.e.
node 'foo' of type 'span' is missing.
node 'bar' of type 'link' should be of type 'span'
I don't know if it's possible to extract this information from the
compile process.
Chris
David Li wrote:
> Chris,
>
> So, you take advantage of the '-implement' option in the
XMLC
> defining interfaces across different presentations, right? Hmm,
I
> haven't used that for a long time but it's a good point on the
> strength of XMLC.
>
> I think this thread is getting interesting. All feedback
and
> suggestion are valuable. Thanks and keep them coming.
>
> David
>
> On Thursday, Nov 21, 2002, at 19:04 Asia/Shanghai, Chris Webb
wrote:
>
>> Mark,
>>
>> I agree with you on this. This change would be a completely
different
>> beast to the current XMLC. If we lose the convenience methods
then we
>> would lose the ability to create interfaces to abstract the
dynamic
>> requirements of each document and thus compile time checking
of
>> dynamic content compliancy. We use these dynamic content
interfaces
>> extensively for multiple look and feels for HTML, WML and
VoiceXML.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> Mark Diekhans wrote:
>>
>>> Hi David,
>>> This sounds like a really interesting idea,
however it's not really
>>> XMLC anymore, it's a different paradigm. It doesn't
compiling
>>> anything.
>>> I would suggest that this would be a separate package.
I think it
>>> could
>>> share the output and lazydom packages. This would also
keep from
>>> break existing XMLC users, as this will be completely
incompatible.
>>>
>>> It would be interesting to compare applications developed in
this way
>>> with the current XMLC and Barracuda
>>>
>>> David Li writes:
>>>
>>>> DOM API is low level and was originally defined in IDL
for cross
>>>> language portability. It's tedious to use and anyone who
has tried
>>>> to populate a table using DOM API could testify
this.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, it didn't take long to figure out that a package like
Barracuda
>>> was essentially for doing complex things.
>>>
>>>> The new XMLC reloading has open up the possibility to
get rid of
>>>> the Java classes and enable to dynamically add new
documents into
>>>> XMLC system without source generation and compilation.
However,
>>>> with this approach, we won't have the convenient methods
for the
>>>> XMLC class and will have to deal with generic DOM.
>>>>
>>>> There are two possible solutions to provide a new
programming
>>>> interface on top of the XMLC: a Document centric
approaches using
>>>> XPath or a Java centric approaches using either JDOM or
DOM4J. Both
>>>> can probably be provided together and give the choice to
the users
>>>> to pick their favorites.
>>>>
>>>> I have been experimenting with XPath for a while using a
package
>>>> called JXPath from Jakarta project. It uses XPath to
address the
>>>> elements in DOM and can be use to replace the convenient
methods
>>>> generated by the currently XMLC implementation quite
easily.
>>>>
>>>> for setting text,
>>>>
>>>>
documentContext.setValue("id(foo)/text()", "New
value");
>>>>
>>>> Just some random thought on the future of XMLC. I'd like
to hear
>>>> what the community feel about the features needed to
make XMLC a
>>>> better tools.
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> XMLC mailing list
>>> XMLC@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
http://www.enhydra.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/xmlc
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris Webb
>> Voxsurf Ltd.
>> 3rd Floor
>> Elme House
>> 133 Long Acre
>> London WC2E 9DT
>>
>> Tel. +44 (0) 20 7240 3621 x 206
>> Mob. +44 (0) 77 8639 2359
>> Fax. +44 (0) 20 7379 7573
>> e-mail : chris.webb@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> Voice Demo. +44 (0) 870 744 7223
http://www.voxsurf.com
>>
>> Email disclaimer: This can be viewed at
>>
http://www.voxsurf.com/disclaimer.html
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> XMLC mailing list
>> XMLC@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>
http://www.enhydra.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/xmlc
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> XMLC mailing list
> XMLC@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
http://www.enhydra.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/xmlc
--
Chris Webb
Voxsurf Ltd.
3rd Floor
Elme House
133 Long Acre
London WC2E 9DT
Tel. +44 (0) 20 7240 3621 x 206
Mob. +44 (0) 77 8639 2359
Fax. +44 (0) 20 7379 7573
e-mail : chris.webb@xxxxxxxxxxx
Voice Demo. +44 (0) 870 744 7223
http://www.voxsurf.com
Email disclaimer: This can be viewed at
http://www.voxsurf.com/disclaimer.html
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