Subject: Re: oss route planner? google transit data? -
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Re: oss route planner? google transit data?

I'm assuming Google's data format, being CC, will become the de facto standard for open source work. I find it interesting, if not ultimately suprising, that Google's format is very old school: a set of seven CSV files (http://code.google.com/transit/spec/transit_feed_specification.htm#transitFeedFiles) Certainly, they're more likely to get buy in from massive bureacracies if they use technology like CSV that is more familiar to them. I just can't fight the feeling that in some ways Google is setting the state of the art for information handling back (in more ways than this), except for the pragmatic fact that they tend to make progress on things better than the idealists touting new formats and practices (among whom I would normally count myself!) Then again, some of their things are more open than others. On a slightly related note, a while back I looked more closely at OASIS xAL (extensible Address Language), which is used by Google Earth and the google geolocator API. It sure seems to be awfully tangled. As an experienced coder (but a novice geowanker), I've wondered for a long time why it has been so hard for the world to come up with a common method for structuring address data. I can't tell if this XML syntax is the answer -- "it's just hard, and addresses vary wildly when you actually compare them" or if it's just another example of an overcooked bureaucratic standard that needs to be revisited by someone who understands YAGNI. Joe -- Joe Germuska Joe@xxxxxxxxxxxx * http://blog.germuska.com "The truth is that we learned from João forever to be out of tune." -- Caetano Veloso

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[ANN] Call for Participation, XTech 2007

Hi, Please find below the CFP for next year's XTech. Plenty of geo & locative topics on my wishlist. Thanks! -- Edd Call for Participation -- XTech 2007 http://2007.xtech.org/ Paris, France. 15-18 May 2007 Proposals for presentations and tutorials are invited for XTech 2007, Europe's premier web technologies conference. The deadline for submitting proposals is December 15th, 2006. Read the CFPs and submit proposals online at http://xtech.expectnation.com/event/1/public/cfp The theme for this year's conference is "The Ubiquitous Web". As the web reaches further into our lives, we will consider the increasing ubiquity of connectivity, what it means for real world objects to connect with the web, and the increasing blurring of the lines between virtual worlds and our own. The technologies underpinning these developments include mobile devices, RFID, Second Life, location-aware services, Google Earth and more. The issues surrounding them include privacy, intellectual property, activism, politics, regulation and standards. XTech is comprised of four thematic tracks: * Applications: web applications, vocabularies, publishing, content management, case studies * Browser Technologies: browsers, mobile, user interface, related issues and standards. * Core Technology: the heart of web technology, markup, protocols, semantics and more. * Open Data: technology, experiences and policy behind open access to data. More detail on the content for each track can be found at http://xtech.expectnation.com/event/1/public/content/tracks Keynotes for XTech 2007 include Adam Greenfield, author of "Everyware: The Dawning Age of Ubiquitous Computing", Gavin Starks of Global Cool and designers of the future Matt Webb and Jack Schulze. Last year's schedule can be viewed on the XTech 2006 web site at http://2006.xtech.org/schedule Please direct any questions to the conference chair, Edd Dumbill. Email edd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx XTech 2007 is produced by IDEAlliance, http://idealliance.org/ -- Edd Dumbill Principal, Useful Information Company UK: +44 207 871 0058 US: +1 (415) 315 9872 http://usefulinc.com/ | http://xtech.org/

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Re: oss route planner? google transit data?

I'm assuming Google's data format, being CC, will become the de facto standard for open source work. I find it interesting, if not ultimately suprising, that Google's format is very old school: a set of seven CSV files (http://code.google.com/transit/spec/transit_feed_specification.htm#transitFeedFiles) Certainly, they're more likely to get buy in from massive bureacracies if they use technology like CSV that is more familiar to them. I just can't fight the feeling that in some ways Google is setting the state of the art for information handling back (in more ways than this), except for the pragmatic fact that they tend to make progress on things better than the idealists touting new formats and practices (among whom I would normally count myself!) Then again, some of their things are more open than others. On a slightly related note, a while back I looked more closely at OASIS xAL (extensible Address Language), which is used by Google Earth and the google geolocator API. It sure seems to be awfully tangled. As an experienced coder (but a novice geowanker), I've wondered for a long time why it has been so hard for the world to come up with a common method for structuring address data. I can't tell if this XML syntax is the answer -- "it's just hard, and addresses vary wildly when you actually compare them" or if it's just another example of an overcooked bureaucratic standard that needs to be revisited by someone who understands YAGNI. Joe -- Joe Germuska Joe@xxxxxxxxxxxx * http://blog.germuska.com "The truth is that we learned from João forever to be out of tune." -- Caetano Veloso

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Re: oss route planner? google transit data?

In the UK, several standards and protocols have been developed and deployed for exchanging transit data, could have some useful jumping off points.. http://www.public-transport.org.uk/ ----- Original Message ---- From: Ian White|Urban Mapping <ian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: geowanking@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2006 5:20:19 PM Subject: Re: [Geowanking] oss route planner? google transit data? There are a few standards floating around for transit. One is put out by APTA, the transit people. Several years in dev and nobody (to my knowledge) uses it. The GT spec was meant to be dead simple, but that also limits how broadly it can be used. I was at GOSCON in Portland a few weeks ago and followed the transit track (sorry for the pun). There is an open source scheduler in development, and TriMet is really driving much of this. However, the real issue is the TAs themselves--they are fiefdoms of institutional knowledge and bureaucracy and don't have much of an interest in changing--TriMet is more the exception. We've been working (and trying to work) with TAs to get their raw data, standardize and distribute--let's just say saying 'please' isn't the best way to make something happen. This also gets tied up in the geodata ownership discussion--in the US much of this is taxpayer financed, but not completely so, as many transit systems are authorities, which can float their own bonds, so they are a step removed/insulated. Even so, nobody owns the departure time of a train, these authorities (supposedly) serve the public interest which would mean increasing ridership, but yes and no... UMI is focusing on this, and I am personally obsessed. the national security argument has come into play with about 95% of the TAs I speak with--they know it's a shield, but it is one that allows them to keep 9-5 hours. Again, generally...I don't mean to poo-poo the world of public transit, but the idea of any agency talking to another wasn't even conceived of until a few years ago. ian Ian White :: Urban Mapping, Inc 690 Fifth Street Suite 200 :: San Francisco CA 94107 T 415.946.8170 :: F 866.385.8266 :: www.urbanmapping.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Haran <chebuctonian@xxxxxxxxx> To: geowanking@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2006 6:09:08 AM GMT-0800 US/Pacific Subject: [Geowanking] oss route planner? google transit data? => Is anyone here working on an OSS route planner? This is old news now, but I haven't seen it discussed here: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2006/09/happy-trails-with-google-transit.html Google Transit is actively adding cities, and asking for transit data from other cities. Cities don't have to pay anything beyond the cost of transforming their data to Google's format - which is under a Creative Commons. There are still some bugs, and GT sometimes suggest you walk on water: http://google.com/transit?f=q&hl=en&time=&date=&ttype=&q=930+nw+25th+pl+97210+to+4747+n+channel+ave+97217+8+am&ie=UTF8&z=13&om=1 The more competition in this area, the better. Already, GT is kicking some serious butt on UI alone. Is there any open source competition? I'm assuming Google's data format, being CC, will become the de facto standard for open source work. Does anyone have data in this format? Daniel. _______________________________________________ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking _______________________________________________ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking