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Subject: point-blank shotguns and DR? - msg#00010List: games.rpg.gurpsHad a situation come up in me PhantaSea game. One of the crew got ahold of an automatic shotgun (rof 3x9 dam 1d+1 pi). He used it against a draconian knight (very tough crossbreed human and dragon). The draconian has a total DR of 15 (5 from magical chainmail and 10 from natural thick scales). In GURPS Basic p. 409, under the heading "Shotguns and Multiple Projectiles"... it says at ranges less than 10% of 1/2D to multiply both basic damage dice and the target's DR by half the value of RoF. In this case that would be the target's DR goes from 15 to 60?!? (RoF 3x9, half of 9 is 4.5, round to 4.... 4*15 = 60) Is this a correct interpretation of the rules as written? Was it meant to be this way? Since the weapon was fired while directly placed against the creature's chest (well, chainmail covering the chest), I ignored the *4 to DR and just applied the DR15 against the damage from the gun (base damage dice times 4)... Or is DR15 really that tough? I probably shouldn't have the draconian's armor stack ontop of his natural tough skin, but I wanted these guys to be really tough badasses... something that the party could take down if they worked together, but one-on-one would be next to impossible. On a side-note: Ever since they've picked up a necromancer in the party, they've been avoiding headshots because I ruled that zombies required an intact brain to function... :) Thread at a glance:
Previous Message by Date: click to view message previewRe: WoW: DR, "ablates" ER as well as DR?Jeff Wilson wrote: This sounds more like 4 extra hit points, somehow worn on the outside, with a vulnerability (lose 2 ER per HP) and regeneration only on them that costs ER as well, "extra hit points, somehow worn on the outside" is usually spelt DR (Ablative). The shield should not make me go Splat harder when I fall, nor should it make me do more damage when I body check someone. Ergo, DR (Ablative) - note not Semi-ablative, full Ablative means you loose one DR per one damage blocked. From the forum, and a little bit of brainstorming, it was suggested: DR 4 (Ablative-80%; Reflexive +40%; Limited: Physical -20%; Costs Variable Fatigue 8 -20%; Variable +5%; Cosmic: Undivisable Defense +100%; Force Field +10%; Arcane Power -10%) Ablative means the DR gets damaged. Reflexive means that it comes up when I'm attacked, Variable means only as many levels as needed to block the attack come up, Costs Fatigue (variable) means that I pay 2 fatigue per level of DR activated. So exactly the number of DR required to block the attack are activated, costing me 2 DR per point blocked. As ablative, that point blocked destroys a point of DR immediately. The Force Field, Limited defense and Cosmic defense are part of the nature of the ability, and Arcane Power is the power modifier (Arcane being a college of Magic). Of course, the problems with recharging the entire DR by recasting, and the entire shield going pffft after 60 seconds still need to be addressed. Next Message by Date: click to view message previewRe: point-blank shotguns and DR?On 9/16/06, Chris J. Whitcomb <rekres-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: One of the crew got ahold of an automatic shotgun (rof 3x9 dam 1d+1 pi). He used it against a draconian knight (very tough crossbreed human and dragon). The draconian has a total DR of 15 (5 from magical chainmail and 10 from natural thick scales). In GURPS Basic p. 409, under the heading "Shotguns and Multiple Projectiles"... it says at ranges less than 10% of 1/2D to multiply both basic damage dice and the target's DR by half the value of RoF. In this case that would be the target's DR goes from 15 to 60?!? (RoF 3x9, half of 9 is 4.5, round to 4.... 4*15 = 60) Is this a correct interpretation of the rules as written? Was it meant to be this way? That's correct, shotgun blasts aren't particularly more effective against DR, the pellets are still individually pretty small. It's just that more of them hit. Since the weapon was fired while directly placed against the creature's chest (well, chainmail covering the chest), I ignored the *4 to DR and just applied the DR15 against the damage from the gun (base damage dice times 4)... Or is DR15 really that tough? I probably shouldn't have the draconian's armor stack ontop of his natural tough skin, but I wanted these guys to be really tough badasses... something that the party could take down if they worked together, but one-on-one would be next to impossible. DR 15 isn't particularly tough compared to a Tac vest with trama plates at DR 25. But it isn't really something you'll get through with a handgun or shotgun, you need a rifle. Alternately you need rules for firing slugs rather than shot out of your shotgun, something that I don't believe I've seen in 4e yet. -- Scott K. Ellis Previous Message by Thread: click to view message previewWoW: DR, "ablates" ER as well as DR?Another odd question in persuit of converting from World of Warcraft to GURPS. The power concept is a switchable force field. Activating the field costs two points of Energy Reserve, and leaves it active for one minute. This force field can stop 4 points of physical damage and then it is spent, and you have to spend another two ER to reactivate it. This shield canot be bypassed by armor reducing/dividing effects. So far, so good: 4 DR with Force Field, Costs Fatigue 2, Ablative, Limited (Physical attacks), Nuisance Effect: Cannot be maintained at half cost, Accessability: Powered by ER, Cosmic. However: 1) every point of damage stopped ALSO drains 2 points of ER. 2) If you run out of ER, the force field collapses immediately. If you ran out of ER because of the cost of stopping damage, you stop the last point of damage you can pay full cost for, and the rest blows through. 3) If the force field is destroyed, it can be "recast" for 2 ER, and it immediately has 4 ablative DR available again. Normally as a GM I'd be really reluctant to allow #3, as it sort of makes Ablative pointless, but #1 and 2 make it really relevant again. -- Emily Smirle Zwischen Leber und Milz, passt immer noch eine Pils. Denn wo frueher mal die Leber war, ist heute eine Mini-Bar. Next Message by Thread: click to view message previewRe: point-blank shotguns and DR?On 9/16/06, Chris J. Whitcomb <rekres-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: One of the crew got ahold of an automatic shotgun (rof 3x9 dam 1d+1 pi). He used it against a draconian knight (very tough crossbreed human and dragon). The draconian has a total DR of 15 (5 from magical chainmail and 10 from natural thick scales). In GURPS Basic p. 409, under the heading "Shotguns and Multiple Projectiles"... it says at ranges less than 10% of 1/2D to multiply both basic damage dice and the target's DR by half the value of RoF. In this case that would be the target's DR goes from 15 to 60?!? (RoF 3x9, half of 9 is 4.5, round to 4.... 4*15 = 60) Is this a correct interpretation of the rules as written? Was it meant to be this way? That's correct, shotgun blasts aren't particularly more effective against DR, the pellets are still individually pretty small. It's just that more of them hit. Since the weapon was fired while directly placed against the creature's chest (well, chainmail covering the chest), I ignored the *4 to DR and just applied the DR15 against the damage from the gun (base damage dice times 4)... Or is DR15 really that tough? I probably shouldn't have the draconian's armor stack ontop of his natural tough skin, but I wanted these guys to be really tough badasses... something that the party could take down if they worked together, but one-on-one would be next to impossible. DR 15 isn't particularly tough compared to a Tac vest with trama plates at DR 25. But it isn't really something you'll get through with a handgun or shotgun, you need a rifle. Alternately you need rules for firing slugs rather than shot out of your shotgun, something that I don't believe I've seen in 4e yet. -- Scott K. 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