Re: Peter wants to know (was: Where did Jan get z/SIE block documentation?)

Wow, 3 replies within the space of one hour!


------------------------------- 
pdw> Fri Oct 18, 2002  11:24 pm
pdw> Regarding the z/SIE block documentation pa3efu wrote:

pdw> No, the easy way is to arrange in advance for the right to use 
someone
pdw> else's IP.
pdw> The hard way is to use it anyway and then fashion cryptic 
messages to
pdw> appear responsive when in reality being evasive about where one 
got
pdw> information.

I am not being evasive, I just happened to have decided not to give 
you 
anymore information then that I see fit.

pdw> I'm perfectly willing to believe that there may be a public 
source for
pdw> z/SIE block info -- you need only point it out. (No hurry, take 
all
pdw> weekend to type up your one line reference info)

You are right, that is about all it needs, but you have not quite 
convinced 
me yet to do so.

pdw> IBM seemingly refuses to license z/VM on Hercules. My sense is 
that at
pdw> least some of the reluctance on IBM's part is because Hercules
pdw> incorporates restricted IBM IP without permission. Here is Jan's
pdw> chance to prove them mistaken at least so far as z/SIE 
documentation is
pdw> concerned. Perhaps by backing up his claim that the z/SIE block 
is
pdw> publically documented he can dispell any erroneous beliefs 
within IBM.
pdw> (IBM probably reads this list too) Instead, one is left to 
consider
pdw> all the words he has typed in NOT answering this question. (IBM
pdw> probably reads this list too)

I am sure that if ibm considered the z/sie block (aka state 
desciptor) confidential 
information, they would investigate as to where it came from. This 
has not happened
simply because the information is not confidential (unless someone 
has made a mistake 
in publishing this).  

All IBM would need to do is drop me an email requesting the 
information,
this has not happened yet, probably be cause they know that the 
z/sie block
info is publically available.

I would estimate that they find this entire discussion a bit of a 
joke. (as do I)


 
 

------------------------------
pdw> Sat Oct 19, 2002  12:05 am
pdw> pa3efu wrote:

pdw> I believe GA of Flex 6.2 (z/Arch version) is scheduled for next 
week, so
pdw> I'm not sure I understand what signals you are talking about. 
I'm all
pdw> ears however if you care to say more .....

Just expain the footnote (discaimer) on the fsi home page regarding 
z/arch support.

I believe that there is also some confusion under your customers 
regarding
the z/arch support that you claim to offer.

pdw> The availabilty of z/SIE block documents publically would not 
alter our
pdw> fiscal arrangement with IBM, so there is no reason for you to 
assert
pdw> "most certainly" otherwise, except perhaps as an oblique 
attempt to
pdw> justify not answering the question about where you obtained 
z/SIE block
pdw> documentation.

We seem to go round in circles here




-------------------------------
pdw> Sat Oct 19, 2002  12:11 am
pdw> Oh, I believe that too, but what you didn't say was that 
Hercules was
pdw> developed using *ONLY* openly available information.

pdw> And just so we are all level set, could you perhaps define what 
you mean
pdw> by "openly available information"? It may be that we have a 
simple
pdw> misunderstanding of what documents and sources 
constitute "publically
pdw> available".

I am not a lawyer, how do you qualify general ibm documentation?


However if you feel that confidential information has been leaked 
from fsi to 
the hercules developers, then I am quite happy to investigate this 
for you.



best regards,

jj




 

=========================
Fri Oct 18, 2002  6:45 pm
Hi Peter,

pdw> Thu Oct 17, 2002  3:27 am
pdw> JJ, given your claim that its publically available, would you
pdw> have any objection to saying exactly where it is publically 
available?

That would be the easy way out


pdw> Thu Oct 17, 2002  10:53 pm
pdw> no response as of yet

It appears that there is some urgency to this matter.  I am getting 
quite 
a few signals that fsi feels that they are being sqeezed too far by 
ibm
in the negotiations on the T&c'S of flex 64 bit support.  It would 
be nice
for fsi to have all this information at hand, it will most certainly 
lower
some of the costs.


pdw> The greater question is whether or not Jan maintains that he 
used only
pdw> openly available (ie, non-proprietary) info in his Herc 
development
pdw> work. z/SIE could be one example where this may be demonstrated.

I certainly believe that hercules was developed using openly 
available information.

If I am wrong however, then someone who has confidential access to 
this 
type of information would have 'leak' this to the hercules 
developers.
To what purpose? There would have to be a motive, financial gain for 
one.
As hercules is free open source there is no money involved, so 
others would
have to benefit by leaking information to hercules developers.

Only those who are involved in commercially developing this type of 
technology 
may benefit from such a leak.  When this information is purposely 
leaked to 
hercules developers, then the value of that information would be 
reduced.


Have a nice weekend

jj


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