Subject: Re: Multi-language posting etiquette question - msg#00041

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Re: Multi-language posting etiquette question

Ok, then. The only "language" I object to is "l33t sp34k" and "txting". Anybody who posts something like: I need ur help pls how do i work @ e+ -kthx (I see this on other serious lists) will not be getting an answer from me! :) -dZ. >------- Original Message ------- >From : mattlavinder-lykGfmdRE45cyoYjzPa5A0EOCMrvLtNR@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[mailto:mattlavinder-lykGfmdRE45cyoYjzPa5A0EOCMrvLtNR@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] >Sent : 11/5/2007 5:46:43 PM >To : editplus-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >Cc : >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting etiquette question > >> only the removal of any perceive stigma that posts must be > in English, or face flames, insults, or ostracization > (as happens in other lists). I totally agree with you on this issue. People should most definitely not lash out or insult someone for posting in a language other than English. I don't mind what occurred today because it is rare. I'm fine if people occasionally help out others in another language as long as it is also made clear, respectively, that the group's official language is English. Just my two cents... "dz-Ts12bCdYo6esTnJN9+BGXg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <dz-Ts12bCdYo6esTnJN9+BGXg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent by: editplus-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 11/05/2007 03:50 PM Please respond to editplus-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To editplus-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx cc Subject Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting etiquette question Mark, I do not mean to sound pedantic, but your last message implied that there wouldn't be much multi-lingual posts, except the occasional Spanish or French, and that even additional lists would be overkill because of this. Frankly, I tend to agree with that thought, and it occurs to me that if it ever indeed became a traffic problem in this list, then additional language-specific lists can be spawned. I personally do not mind taking this attitude, and therefore do not oppose actively encouraging users to post in their native language -- with no guarantees as to the expectation of an answer; only the removal of any perceive stigma that posts must be in English, or face flames, insults, or ostracization (as happens in other lists). But I would not impose this on any other active member of this list, especially those that participate often, such as yourself. And that's why I asked for consensus from the list. I only propose it, because the traffic on this list is low as it is, and a little more wouldn't hurt it. That said, I'd understand if you or any other members have any reservations for this; and that's your prerrogative, and I respect it. (As a matter of fact, that's the attitude I have taken on other lists of higher traffic and less culturally-neutral topics.) And if that is the case, I will not insist, and all will be well with the world. Cheers! -dZ. >------- Original Message ------- >From : Mark Kahn[ mailto:cwolves-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] >Sent : 11/5/2007 4:29:13 PM >To : editplus-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >Cc : >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting etiquette question > >I have no problem with the occasional multilingual post as long as we don't get Chinese posts from peole like mona naeem. At the same time, however, I don't think we should tell people that it is okay to post in whatever language they want because I don't want half the posts on this list to be in a dozen different languages. --------------------------------------- Mark Kahn http://a.sparag.us Web 2.0 Data Management --------------------------------------- Sent from my iPod Touch On Nov 5, 2007, at 2:29 PM, "dz-Ts12bCdYo6esTnJN9+BGXg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <dz-Ts12bCdYo6esTnJN9+BGXg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Mark, > I agree with your comment. However, the question > then is: Would it offend or upset anybody if someone > happens to post in a different language? In such > case, those who understand and care to answer, can. > The worst scenario being that the message goes > completely ignored and the poster has to either > acquiesce and go away or re-post in (possibly > machine-translated) English. > > That's why I posed it as an etiquette question: > Some people think that posting in any other language > than the commonly used one in their list, is rude. > And this is very much dependent on the community > involved, and is neither right nor wrong. How does > it apply to ours, do we want to discourage or > encourage this behaviour? I personally have no > problem with seeing a message in Cantonese and > ignoring it. But if I see a message in a language I > understand, I could offer help. > > That said, I will not, however, encourage > cross-language posting if my fellow list members > object to it. > > Sincerely, > -dZ. > > >------- Original Message ------- > >From : Mark Kahn[ mailto:cwolves-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] > >Sent : 11/5/2007 2:19:14 PM > >To : editplus-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > >Cc : > >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting > etiquette question > > > >I have no problem helping people with poor english, > but there's no possible > way I'd go to babelfish or something and translate a > post from someone that > asked a question in cantonese. > > There are so many free translation services out there > that I believe > non-english speaking people should translate posts > into english and then > translate the responses back in order to read them. > Translation services > may not be perfect but I've never (in recent years) > seen a translation from > one that I couldn't figure out the meaning of. > > I don't mean to sound cruel or racist here, but with > the possible exception > of spanish you are very unlikely to find an answer on > this list if you ask > in any language other than english. If I went to a > german or chinese forum > or mailing list and posted in english, I wouldn't > necessarily expect people > to answer me. > > The problem with foreign language lists is the user > base. We have maybe a > dozen people on the english list that will actively > answer a question. > You'd have what, one on a french list? Three on a > spanish list? The > quality of the list will just be better overall if it > stays english only. I > can almost gaurantee that foreign language lists > would be abandoned fairly > quickly. > > -Mark > > On 11/5/07, dz-Ts12bCdYo6esTnJN9+BGXg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > <dz-Ts12bCdYo6esTnJN9+BGXg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > Hello: > > As has become apparent, there may be EditPlus > > users whom are not native English speakers. Is there > > a specific etiquette rule that should be observed for > > these instances? I mean, should the list be ONLY in > > English? I understand that if someone posts in a > > foreign language, even if someone replies, their pool > > of resources is limited, as not all members of the > > list will be able to participate in the discussion. > > On the other hand, for those who can't properly > > communicate in English (or have trouble doing so in a > > practical situation), being prevented from posting to > > the list will certainly affect their ability to use > > EditPlus. > > > > On the one hand, English speakers will be > > alienated from discussions; on the other, non-English > > speakers will. Should there be other > > language-specific lists (say, > > editplus-es-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > <editplus-es%40yahoogroups.com>)? (Do they > > exist already?) > > > > I speak both English and Spanish, and could > > participate on both lists if necessary, but is it > > good practice, or should we stick to the single list? > > Then, of course, there's many other languages beside > > Spanish and English (e.g. Sangil Kim is Korean). > > > > I would like to know your opinion on the matter. > > -dZ. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > http://www.editplus.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] http://www.editplus.com Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] http://www.editplus.com Yahoo! Groups Links http://www.editplus.com

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Re: Multi-language posting etiquette question

Well, I don't mind. I just wonder will it be able to display non-latin text. Let's see. ÑÐÑÑ ÏÎÏÏ ããã http://www.editplus.com

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Re: Multi-language posting etiquette question

Ok, then. The only "language" I object to is "l33t sp34k" and "txting". Anybody who posts something like: I need ur help pls how do i work @ e+ -kthx (I see this on other serious lists) will not be getting an answer from me! :) -dZ. >------- Original Message ------- >From : mattlavinder-lykGfmdRE45cyoYjzPa5A0EOCMrvLtNR@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[mailto:mattlavinder-lykGfmdRE45cyoYjzPa5A0EOCMrvLtNR@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] >Sent : 11/5/2007 5:46:43 PM >To : editplus-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >Cc : >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting etiquette question > >> only the removal of any perceive stigma that posts must be > in English, or face flames, insults, or ostracization > (as happens in other lists). I totally agree with you on this issue. People should most definitely not lash out or insult someone for posting in a language other than English. I don't mind what occurred today because it is rare. I'm fine if people occasionally help out others in another language as long as it is also made clear, respectively, that the group's official language is English. Just my two cents... "dz-Ts12bCdYo6esTnJN9+BGXg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <dz-Ts12bCdYo6esTnJN9+BGXg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent by: editplus-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 11/05/2007 03:50 PM Please respond to editplus-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To editplus-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx cc Subject Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting etiquette question Mark, I do not mean to sound pedantic, but your last message implied that there wouldn't be much multi-lingual posts, except the occasional Spanish or French, and that even additional lists would be overkill because of this. Frankly, I tend to agree with that thought, and it occurs to me that if it ever indeed became a traffic problem in this list, then additional language-specific lists can be spawned. I personally do not mind taking this attitude, and therefore do not oppose actively encouraging users to post in their native language -- with no guarantees as to the expectation of an answer; only the removal of any perceive stigma that posts must be in English, or face flames, insults, or ostracization (as happens in other lists). But I would not impose this on any other active member of this list, especially those that participate often, such as yourself. And that's why I asked for consensus from the list. I only propose it, because the traffic on this list is low as it is, and a little more wouldn't hurt it. That said, I'd understand if you or any other members have any reservations for this; and that's your prerrogative, and I respect it. (As a matter of fact, that's the attitude I have taken on other lists of higher traffic and less culturally-neutral topics.) And if that is the case, I will not insist, and all will be well with the world. Cheers! -dZ. >------- Original Message ------- >From : Mark Kahn[ mailto:cwolves-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] >Sent : 11/5/2007 4:29:13 PM >To : editplus-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >Cc : >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting etiquette question > >I have no problem with the occasional multilingual post as long as we don't get Chinese posts from peole like mona naeem. At the same time, however, I don't think we should tell people that it is okay to post in whatever language they want because I don't want half the posts on this list to be in a dozen different languages. --------------------------------------- Mark Kahn http://a.sparag.us Web 2.0 Data Management --------------------------------------- Sent from my iPod Touch On Nov 5, 2007, at 2:29 PM, "dz-Ts12bCdYo6esTnJN9+BGXg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <dz-Ts12bCdYo6esTnJN9+BGXg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Mark, > I agree with your comment. However, the question > then is: Would it offend or upset anybody if someone > happens to post in a different language? In such > case, those who understand and care to answer, can. > The worst scenario being that the message goes > completely ignored and the poster has to either > acquiesce and go away or re-post in (possibly > machine-translated) English. > > That's why I posed it as an etiquette question: > Some people think that posting in any other language > than the commonly used one in their list, is rude. > And this is very much dependent on the community > involved, and is neither right nor wrong. How does > it apply to ours, do we want to discourage or > encourage this behaviour? I personally have no > problem with seeing a message in Cantonese and > ignoring it. But if I see a message in a language I > understand, I could offer help. > > That said, I will not, however, encourage > cross-language posting if my fellow list members > object to it. > > Sincerely, > -dZ. > > >------- Original Message ------- > >From : Mark Kahn[ mailto:cwolves-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] > >Sent : 11/5/2007 2:19:14 PM > >To : editplus-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > >Cc : > >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting > etiquette question > > > >I have no problem helping people with poor english, > but there's no possible > way I'd go to babelfish or something and translate a > post from someone that > asked a question in cantonese. > > There are so many free translation services out there > that I believe > non-english speaking people should translate posts > into english and then > translate the responses back in order to read them. > Translation services > may not be perfect but I've never (in recent years) > seen a translation from > one that I couldn't figure out the meaning of. > > I don't mean to sound cruel or racist here, but with > the possible exception > of spanish you are very unlikely to find an answer on > this list if you ask > in any language other than english. If I went to a > german or chinese forum > or mailing list and posted in english, I wouldn't > necessarily expect people > to answer me. > > The problem with foreign language lists is the user > base. We have maybe a > dozen people on the english list that will actively > answer a question. > You'd have what, one on a french list? Three on a > spanish list? The > quality of the list will just be better overall if it > stays english only. I > can almost gaurantee that foreign language lists > would be abandoned fairly > quickly. > > -Mark > > On 11/5/07, dz-Ts12bCdYo6esTnJN9+BGXg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > <dz-Ts12bCdYo6esTnJN9+BGXg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > Hello: > > As has become apparent, there may be EditPlus > > users whom are not native English speakers. Is there > > a specific etiquette rule that should be observed for > > these instances? I mean, should the list be ONLY in > > English? I understand that if someone posts in a > > foreign language, even if someone replies, their pool > > of resources is limited, as not all members of the > > list will be able to participate in the discussion. > > On the other hand, for those who can't properly > > communicate in English (or have trouble doing so in a > > practical situation), being prevented from posting to > > the list will certainly affect their ability to use > > EditPlus. > > > > On the one hand, English speakers will be > > alienated from discussions; on the other, non-English > > speakers will. Should there be other > > language-specific lists (say, > > editplus-es-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > <editplus-es%40yahoogroups.com>)? (Do they > > exist already?) > > > > I speak both English and Spanish, and could > > participate on both lists if necessary, but is it > > good practice, or should we stick to the single list? > > Then, of course, there's many other languages beside > > Spanish and English (e.g. Sangil Kim is Korean). > > > > I would like to know your opinion on the matter. > > -dZ. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > http://www.editplus.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] http://www.editplus.com Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] http://www.editplus.com Yahoo! Groups Links http://www.editplus.com

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Re: Multi-language posting etiquette question

Well, I don't mind. I just wonder will it be able to display non-latin text. Let's see. ÑÐÑÑ ÏÎÏÏ ããã http://www.editplus.com