CryoNet #22728 - #22734

CryoNet - Sun 26 Oct 2003

    #22728: Re: CryoNet #22721 - #22727 [Debbie]
    #22729: Cryonic's  signees [Mikep3333]
    #22730: freebies [Charles Platt]
    #22731: Re: CryoNet #22715 Space [Azt28]
    #22732: Re: Dietary supplement abolishes age-related cognitive decline 
(CryoNet #22726) [Igor Artyuhov]
    #22733: Re: CryoNet #22721 - #22727 [Ronellie]
    #22734: Touted Antiaging Pill Slated for 2004 Release [Bryan Hall]

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Message #22728
From: "Debbie" <dsale@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References: <20031025090000.45206.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #22721 - #22727
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:00:06 -0400

Re: Terri Schiavo

May be a good idea to send some of the prior posted suggestions to the web
site.

-- If you recovered from brain damage caused by lack of oxygen, or are a
doctor who has worked with a patient under these conditions, and can help us
would you please contact us.  We need your help.

http://www.terrisfight.org/lead.htm

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Message #22729
From: Mikep3333@xxxxxxx
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:11:20 EDT
Subject: Cryonic's  signees

Is it public knowledge as to who are some of the more important cryonic 
members signed up who lend credibility to the cause. I find mixed messages as 
to 
some of the more important parties purportedly signed up. Drexler, etc.

Mike Peek


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Message #22730
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:19:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Charles Platt <other@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: freebies

>From yesterday's CryoNet:

> Why don't Alcor or CI offer this woman suspension. The pr
> for cryonics will be incredible. Why not establish a
> cryonics fund for her. I am willing to donate a hundred
> dollars. Maybe much more later on."

Here are the problems, some of which are typical of
last-minute cases involving nonmembers.

1. Lack of informed consent. No one seems to have durable
power of attorney for health care, and the woman has been
judged (by some) to be still alive. Apparently she expressed
no prior interest in cryonics. Personally I have never felt
comfortable about any case in which the preferences of the
patient were questionable and could not be resolved. After
she dies, next-of-kin (husband) would have control over
disposition of remains, but that gets us to the next problem:

2. Almost certainly hostile relatives. If they don't want her
disconnected from life support, probably for religious
reasons, they are unlikely to want her cryopreserved. Even if
the husband were strongly in favor (which is unknown) you
could expect a nasty, expensive, well publicized battle for
custody (Ted Williams revisited). Cryonics should be seen as
a desired option that makes people happy, not as a
contentious issue which causes backlash.

3. Brain damage. I believe that in a case where substantial
brain damage has occurred as a result of ischemia, it is
questionable that cryonics should be used (unless the patient
has expressed a strong prior preference), for just the same
reasons that it is questionable whether life support should
be continued. Bear in mind that some forms of ischemic injury
would be harder to repair with nanotechnology than freezing
damage, since cells may have self-destructed and may no
longer exist.

4. Publicity that is likely to be damaging. I don't think
this is a good time to raise the issue of "When is a dead
person _irrevocably_ dead?" The current medical definition of
death enables cryonics procedures to be applied which would
be impossible if the definition were broadened so that anyone
with probably viable brain structure were considered to be
alive, even in the absence of pulse, respiration, and brain
activity. I'd like to let that sleeping dog lie.

5. Uncertainty about funding.

Overall, the most highly desirable cryonics case always is
one in which the patient made his/her intentions clear while
legally competent to do so, made appropriate financial
arrangements in advance, and is accessible to the cryonics
organization ASAP after death has been pronounced
unambiguously by an independent physician or hospice nurse.

Historically, when an organization has been tempted to
deviate from this model, it has tended to experience problems
which at the very least have taken valuable time and money.

Also as a general rule the impulse to take high-profile cases
for the sake of publicity is questionable, because I have
never seen any one-shot publicity that has caused a
substantial and obvious increase in membership. This even
applied in the case of Dr. James Bedford (the first cryonaut)
which was featured on TV, in Life magazine, and in a book.

The one well-known person I would love to see preserved is
Jack Kevorkian, but that's not very likely, and my motive is
mainly ironic.

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Message #22731
From: Azt28@xxxxxxx
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:31:02 EDT
Subject: Re: CryoNet #22715 Space

Space, airships, submarine cargo ships, fusion energy,... are some of the 
technologies stopped by our society. For the space subject, we need a cheap 
*and* 
massive access to space to get out of the mere dream. One solution could be 
to build 60 miles high towers, made from hydrogen pressurized elements and 
launch from the top a single stage dumb booster able  to produce a 3 - 4 km/s 
impulsion. A tether could then pick up the payload and bring it into orbit. A 
nuclear thermal rocket would then bring back the tether center of gravity to 
its 
initial position.

The NTR motor never come back to Earth, at the end of its useful life it is 
sent into a very high orbit. If it stops at an early time, nothing fall back 
because the tether center of gravity is in orbit. The motor may run at low 
power 
for a long time giging an acceleration well under one "gee". So the motor may 
be safe with large operational margins and small, ie: cheap.

There is no unobtainium magic material in that scheme, the tower is made of 
aramide, the rocket may be a simple first stage of a present day booster, the 
tether is  a kevlar-aramide element, the NTR could be a scaled down version of 
the 40 years old Nerva... The problem is political not technical.

Well you could say the same about cryonics for example: Why is it not in 
universal use? Where is the technical problem?

Yvan Bozzonetti.






> From: Randall Burns <randall_burns@xxxxxxxxx>
> 
> 
> Phillip Rhoades wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
> People banking on future technology to produce more
> food and other technologies to move people to
> space/Mars to solve population problems  
> are dreaming if they think these are short-term
> solutions.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> I don't think space is a short-term solution at this
> point. <...>. Space development
> _could_ have been available now, but Western elites
> lost their nerve(which means they obviously need
> replacement). As it is now, if we are _lucky_, and we
> get some appropriately motivated leadership the next
> 10-15 years, we might see some actual development of
> space in 25-35 years. I'd expect it to be 40-50 years
> before we see a space elevator or the equivalent.
> 


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Message #22732
From: "Igor Artyuhov" <artyuhov@xxxxxxxxx>
References: <20031025090000.45206.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Dietary supplement abolishes age-related cognitive decline 
(CryoNet #22726)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:49:32 +0400

> Message #22726
> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:56:31 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Jeff Davis <jrd1415@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: CryoNet #22714: dietary supplement abolishes
age-related cognitive decline

[Sorry, skipped]

> The above sounds an awful lot like Bruce Ames work
> with L-acetyl carnatine.  Note that the item never
> actually identifies the "dietary supplement".

The composition of the supplement they called AASUP
(for anti-aging supplement) is published in the paper
"A Dietary Supplement Abolishes Age-Related Cognitive
Decline in Transgenic Mice Expressing Elevated Free
Radical Processes" by J.A. Lemon, D.R. Boreham, and
C.D. Rollo in: Experimental Biology and Medicine 228:
800-810 (2003).

Since it includes 31 components it was hardly possible
to list them all in an abstract. Here is Table 1 from the
paper:

Table I. Formulation of a Dietary Supplement Designed
to Reduce Oxidative Stress and Inflammation, Maintain
Membrane  and  Mitochondrial  Integrity, and Enhance
Insulin Sensitivity

Vitamin B1                   0.72 mg/day
Vitamin B3                   0.72 mg/day
Vitamin B6                   0.72 mg/day
Vitamin B12                  0.72 mcg/day
Vitamin C                    3.6 mg/day
Vitamin D                    2.5 IU/day
Vitamin E                    1.44 IU/day
Acetyl L-Carnitine           14.4 mg/day
Alpha-Lipoic Acid            0.72 mg/day
ASA                          2.5 mg/day
Beta Carotene                50.0 IU/day
Bioflavinoids                 4.32 mg/day
Chromium Picolinate          1.44 mcg/day
Cod Liver Oil                5.04 IU/day
CoEnzyme Q10                 0.44 mg/day
DHEA                         0.15 mg/day
Flax Seed oil                21.6 mg/day
Folic Acid                   0.01 mg/day
Garlic                       21.6 mcg/day
Ginger                       7.2 mg/day
Gingko Biloba                 1.44 mg/day
Ginseng (Canadian)            8.64 mg/day
Green Tea Extracts            7.2 mg/day
L-Glutathione                0.36 mg/day
Magnesium                    0.72 mg/day
Melatonin                    0.01 mg/day
N-Acetyl Cysteine            7.2 mg/day
Potassium                    0.36 mg/day
Rutin                        0.72 mg/day
Selenium                     1.08 mcg/day
Zinc (chelated)              0.14 mg/day

Vitamin brands are: Cell Life; Jamieson vitamins;  Jarrow
Formulas;  Lifebrand; Natural Factors;  Naka;  Promatrix;
Swiss vitamins; Vitamin Power Inc.

One should remember that the experiment was performed
with transgenic mice overexpressing growth hormone (TGM)
and its results are  NOT  necessary applicable to wild-type
humans.

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Message #22733
From: Ronellie@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:51:01 -1000 (HST)
Subject: Re: CryoNet #22721 - #22727

I agree with Basie that killing a person in a vegetative state is wrong,
this might be an easily remedied and reversible condition in the future.
I will match Basie's hundred dollars towards a suspension fund.  This
would be a win-win for both the woman's family and her husband and the
public would be given a different perception that cryonics provides an
third option for other people in this young woman's condition. 
Currently, there is only life or death, we offer hope and a future.
Ron Trumble

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Message #22734
From: "Bryan Hall" <bryan8266@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Touted Antiaging Pill Slated for 2004 Release
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:13:36 -0700

http://www.betterhumans.com/News/news.aspx?articleID=2003-10-24-4


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