CryoNet #22721 - #22727

CryoNet - Sat 25 Oct 2003

    #22721: PVS [JRHMD53]
    #22722: CryoNet #22712 - #22720 [Thomas Donaldson]
    #22723: Re: Selling Organs [Aschwin de Wolf]
    #22724: How Soon will we be Able to Control Aging? [Aschwin de Wolf]
    #22725: In the News: Ependymin, NPR Kass interview [Scott Badger]
    #22726: Re: CryoNet #22714: dietary supplement abolishes age-related 
cognitive decline [Jeff Davis]
    #22727: Is Terri Schiavo Dead? [Basie]

Administrivia

To subscribe to CryoNet, send email to:
    cryonet-request@xxxxxxxxxxx
with the subject line (not message _body_):
    subscribe
To unsubscribe, use the subject line:
    unsubscribe


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #22721
From: JRHMD53@xxxxxxx
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:36:53 EDT
Subject: PVS

There is a severe lack of rationality in these PVS's.  How come no one seems 
to understand there is a difference (profound) between saving life and 
proloning death?
James R Hughes, MD


 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

[ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #22722
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:19:29 -0400
From: Thomas Donaldson <73647.1215@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: CryoNet #22712 - #22720

About Terri Schiavo:

(who was discussed here in the Australian news, too, and with more
detail).

There is a simple test which seems not to have been applied and would
(for some) settle the issue of What's There in Terri Schiavo. Give
her an MRI of her brain... or what's left of it. For instance, late
stage Alzheimer's patients show a dramatic brain shrinkage. If her
brain isn't shrunken, then some hope exists that she might someday
be revived. If it is badly shrunken, then she's no longer there and
can be considered already dead. It sounds as if she only has her
lower brain centers working, if that. An MRI of her brain would 
tell us just what's there and what's missing. 

Would it quiet everyone? No. But it would help settle the issue
of whether or not her recovery would ever be possible.

            Best wishes and long long life for all,

                  Thomas Donaldson

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #22723
From: "Aschwin de Wolf" <amwdewolf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References: <20031024090001.1057.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Selling Organs
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:12:26 -0400

> The matter of choice isn't as black and white as the message
> below suggests. Once the option is available, the choice becomes a matter of
> "give up your kidney (or liver section or whatever) or see your <friend,
> relation  die", and although people really don't want to give up their
> kidney they are forced into it by the threat hanging over them if they don't
> (implicit in the way other members of the group will treat them if they
> don't). Exactly the same thing happens with people in poor countries where
> the choice is "give up your kidney or get beaten up because you have debts",
> (or see your friends and relations get beaten up).


Maybe the Libertarian Alliance is a bit extreme in its rethoric but I am not 
sure how you define a threat. If you (even) include mutually advantageous 
transactions you must also have objections to things like wage labor, 
prostitution and even for-profit cryonics organizations (when poor people are 
involved). 

What is essential here is not to blur the line between the requirement to 
abstain from coercion / aggression and transactions for mutual advantage. For a 
thoughtful discussion of this distinction see:
http://www.againstpolitics.com/libertarianism/index.html#part2

It may test our sensibilities but legalizing the selling of organs *increases* 
(not decreases) the range of alternatives for poor people. One may prefer the 
state giving money to poor people but I am not sure if a forced transfer of 
money (or labor) is to be prefered over a voluntary transfer of organs.

I completely agree that (stem cell) technology for growing organs would be very 
welcome (and better) but making the state the owner (or part owner) of our 
bodies and resticting mutually advantageous transactions should be something 
cryonicists should not support.

A libertarian-leaning non-profit organ sharing organization is:
http://www.lifesharers.com/



 Content-Type: text/html;

[ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #22724
From: "Aschwin de Wolf" <amwdewolf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: How Soon will we be Able to Control Aging?
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:38:16 -0400

Biomarkers of Aging: Do they hold the key in the search for the fountain of 
youth?
October 28, 2003, 10 am EST 
David Harrison, The Jackson Lab vs. Roderick Bronson, Harvard Medical School

Moderator: Morton Kondracke 

Research is moving forward to uncover interventions to slow or reverse the 
effects of aging. With the public hungry for results, there is great attention 
on how we will be able to test outcomes from these new discoveries and gauge 
our longevity. This debate will address whether a "gold standard " measure of 
aging can be found and whether the resources needed for the search are a 
worthwhile investment.

Join us at George Washington University, Cafritz Center, Morris Room or online 
at www.SAGECrossroads.net

How Soon will we be Able to Control Aging?
November 5, 2003 11am 

Aubrey de Grey, University of Cambridge vs. Richard Sprott, Ellison Medical 
Foundation

Moderator: Morton Kondracke

While headlines blast announcements of discoveries that delay the aging 
process, how soon can we expect these discoveries to go from the lab to our 
medicine cabinets? Find out whether there is hope or just hype that we will be 
able to significantly increase our life spans in the next century. 

Join us at AAAS Auditorium, 1200 New York Avenue, Washington, DC or online at 
www.SAGECrossroads.net




 Content-Type: text/html;

[ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #22725
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:27:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Badger <w_scott_badger@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: In the News: Ependymin, NPR Kass interview

Recent press release from the company that will be
begin marketing ependymin in June '04. Pretty bold
claims in the news a month or two ago.

http://www.lifelinenutraceuticals.com/press_release_101603.html


Also... Robert Siegel of NPR's All Things Considered
interviews Dr. Leon Kass regarding his reservations
about life extension.

http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1476660

=====
Scott Badger, Ph.D.
Member: ALCOR, Extropy Insitute, Life Extension Foundation
Assistant Research Professor
University of Idaho
Two Original CD's "Phenom" and "Burdens" 
available at: www.mp3.com/scottbadger

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #22726
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:56:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Davis <jrd1415@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #22714: dietary supplement abolishes age-related cognitive 
decline

Message #22714 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 05:17:41 -0700
(PDT), from Doug Skrecky <oberon@xxxxxxxxx> 

Exp Biol Med (Maywood). 2003 Jul;228(7):800-10.
A  dietary supplement abolishes age-related cognitive
decline in transgenic mice expressing elevated free
radical processes.
                    <snip>
           -----------------------------

The above sounds an awful lot like Bruce Ames work
with L-acetyl carnatine.  Note that the item never
actually identifies the "dietary supplement".

The below is from:

http://ehscenter.berkeley.edu/people/ames.htm

Note the last line.
 
"The main thrust of research in the lab is the study
and therapeutic manipulation of metabolic dysfunction,
for the purpose of restoring and enhancing human
health. For instance, we have characterized the
age-related oxidative decay of mitochondria in
laboratory rats, and have restored function in old
rats by feeding high levels acetyl carnitine and
lipoic acid [1-3, 7]. Mechanistic studies suggest that
the observed drop in mitochondrial function may result
from a decreased Km in key enzymes that act on these
metabolites, and that this drop may be overcome
through supplementation [1]. In addition to reversing
the increase of many biochemical markers of oxidative
damage in old rats, these supplements appear to
restore cognitive function to levels seen in young
animals. ..."

Best, Jeff Davis

   "Everything's hard till you know how to do it."
                           Ray Charles





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #22727
From: "Basie" <coetzeebasie@xxxxxxxxx>
References: <20031024090001.1057.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Is Terri Schiavo Dead?
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:40:49 -0400

No one knows  if she is still there. Killing a mentally handicap person is
wrong. I know several doctors that could never agree on pulling the plug on
some patients. If she was going to be suspended I would have a different
opinion. Why don't Alcor or CI offer this woman suspension. The pr for
cryonics will  be incredible. Why not establish a cryonics fund for her. I
am willing to donate a hundred dollars. Maybe much more later on.

Basie

----------------------------------------------------------------------

End of CryoNet Digest
*********************