CryoNet #22712 - #22720

CryoNet - Fri 24 Oct 2003

    #22712: Population. [THnsn8]
    #22713: Libertarians and organ transplants [John de Rivaz]
    #22714: dietary supplement abolishes age-related cognitive decline [Doug 
Skrecky]
    #22715: Re: CryoNet #22708 - #22711 [Randall Burns]
    #22716: Re.: overpopulation [j.t.searcy]
    #22717: SoCal Cryofeast - Sunday, Dec 7Th, 2003 - 3 to 7pm [Peter Voss]
    #22718: Economist mag on the photosynthetic value of fossil fuels [Mark 
Plus]
    #22719: Reason: Is Terri Schiavo Dead? [Mark Plus]
    #22720: Overpopulation [PSulli789]

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Message #22712
From: THnsn8@xxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:32:32 EDT
Subject: Population.

In a message dated 23/10/2003 10:01:58 GMT Standard Time, Randolfe H. Wicker 
writes:

> It would be impossible to establish clan-based states in
> most parts of the United States because we have become
> a country of mixed racial and ethnic groups.
> 
> 

With the possible exception of the ethnic minority known as the 'native 
americans',  the 'USA' always has been a country of mixed racial and ethnic 
groups.........  so no change there.    If the native americans had been 
successful 
in repelling the invasion of 'illegal immigrants'   200/300 years ago, would 
the US have the military and economic dominance it has in the world today??  I 
think most probably not.

Reminds me of 'The Great White Buffalo'.

Regards....

Tim.  (British.....   but not proud of it) 


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Message #22713
From: "John de Rivaz" <John@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Libertarians and organ transplants
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:43:57 +0100

This might interest some of you ...

particularly this bit

  It is also a cruel and sick joke that while Mr. Evans labels free trade
  as "abhorrent", and claims to defend human rights and dignity, he in
  fact endorses the National Socialist (Nazi) view that men and women's
  bodies are not their own property, but the property of the state.

This relates particularly to compulsory autopsy, more on
<http://www.autopsychoice.com .

******

I would comment here that the subject of people selling organs for money is
something I do have problems with, in exactly the same way as I have
problems with any healthy person voluntarily giving up an organ to help
someone else. The matter of choice isn't as black and white as the message
below suggests. Once the option is available, the choice becomes a matter of
"give up your kidney (or liver section or whatever) or see your <friend,
relation  die", and although people really don't want to give up their
kidney they are forced into it by the threat hanging over them if they don't
(implicit in the way other members of the group will treat them if they
don't). Exactly the same thing happens with people in poor countries where
the choice is "give up your kidney or get beaten up because you have debts",
(or see your friends and relations get beaten up).

I have absolutely no idea of how governments can help or indeed even if
governments could help.

Eventually the problem will go away with stem cell technology growing cloned
organs for specific patients and maybe the best thing governments could do
is to fast track development of this with as few regulatory hurdles as
possible. Stem cell organ cloning should be treated on the same basis as
development of a war effort against an enemy nation -- usually regulations
go by the wayside when there is a war to be fought and technology needs
development for that purpose.

-- 
Sincerely, John de Rivaz: <http://John.deRivaz.com  for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy, Nomad .. and
more

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dr Chris R. Tame" <chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 23 October 2003 01:25
Subject: News Release: Proposed EU Ban on Organ Transplant 'Tourism' Is
Morally Obscene




  NEWS RELEASE FROM THE LIBERTARIAN ALLIANCE
  In Association with the Libertarian International


  Release Date: 23 October 2003
  Release Time: Immediate

  Contact Details: Dr Chris R. Tame, 07957 644519
  director@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:director@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  For other contact and link details, see the foot of this message



  "PROPOSED EU BAN ON ORGAN TRANSPLANT 'TOURISM' IS MORALLY OBSCENE", SAYS
  FREE MARKET AND CIVIL LIBERTIES THINK TANK



  The Libertarian Alliance, the radical free market and civil liberties
  think tank and pressure group, has today condemned a proposed EU ban on
  so-called "organ transplant tourism" as morally obscene as well as
  economically harmful.


  Libertarian Alliance Director, Dr Chris Tame commented:

  Individuals have an absolute ownership over themselves and an absolute
  moral right to sell their own organs. Moreover, the EU is doing poor
  people in the Third World no favours by trying to prevent them from
  bettering their economic position by engaging in free trade. British
  Labour MEP Robert Evans, who is promoting this ban smears voluntary free
  market trade as "exploitation", but it is only such so-called
  "exploitation" that creates - as history and economic science have
  conclusively shown - economic progress and prosperity for ordinary
  people.


  Proposed EU Policy is a Nazi Policy

  It is also a cruel and sick joke that while Mr. Evans labels free trade
  as "abhorrent", and claims to defend human rights and dignity, he in
  fact endorses the National Socialist (Nazi) view that men and women's
  bodies are not their own property, but the property of the state. Evans
  thus calls for a form of nationalisation of our bodies, where people
  might - or might not - be allowed to opt out of the state confiscation
  of body parts after death, and a policy of state controlled rationing.

  It is even more morally obscene that Mr Evans, in his published case for
  the ban, seems unable to distinguish between genuine criminal acts -
  "the removal of a living organ from a living donor using force, threats
  or fraud", with the moral and decent acts of "the payment, offer or
  promise of a financial consideration to a donor".


  Evans Should Apologise and Resign His Post

  Mr. Evans is Vice President of the European Parliament's "Citizen's
  Rights, Justice and Home Affairs Committee". His shameful proposal would
  further destroy real human rights and justice. He is clearly not a fit
  person to hold such a position, and we call on him to do the decent
  thing - to resign and apologise for his Nazi proposals.


  The EU Death machine

  The EU proposals are also a further manifestation of crass hypocrisy. If
  the EU genuinely wanted to help the Third World it would end its
  protective tariffs against Third World goods - especially agricultural
  produce. Such tariffs, according to the recent report of the Brussels-
  based think tank, The Centre for the New Europe, lead to an estimated
  death of 275 people every hour! (See Note 3 below)


  Dr. Tame concludes:

  Not only should this proposed EU ban on free trade in body parts be
  opposed, but the existing law against such beneficial transactions in
  Britain should also be repealed without delay.


  COPY ENDS


  Notes to Editors

  (1) Dr. Chris R. Tame is the founder and Director of the Libertarian
  Alliance. He is a prolific writer and lecturer on many topics in
  sociology, economics, philosophy and the history of ideas. He can be
  contacted for further comment at 07957 644519 or by email at
  director@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:director@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

  (2) Details of the proposed EU ban, and MEP Robert Evans's support
  for it, can be obtained from Robert Evans MEP: Tell 07785 290546; or
  from Helen Kearns: Tell 0478 585281; or by email from
  Psedeleguk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Psedeleguk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


  (3) The CNE Report "EU Trade Barriers Kill" can be found at
  [News Release]
  <http://www.cne.org/pub_pdf/2003_09_04_EU_barriers_kill_PR.htm
  [Report in pdf form]
  <http://www.cne.org/pub_pdf/2003_09_04_EU_barriers_kill.pdf


  Extended Contact Details:

  The Libertarian Alliance is Britain's most radical free market and civil
  liberties policy institute. It has published over 700 articles,
  pamphlets and books in support of freedom and against statism in all its
  forms. These are freely available at

  <http://www.libertarian.co.uk

  Our postal address is:

  The Libertarian Alliance
  25 Chapter Chambers
  Esterbrooke Street
  London SW1W 4NN
  Tel: 020 7 821 5502
  Fax: 020 7 834 2031

  Associated Organisation:

  The Libertarian International - <http://www.libertarian.to  - is a sister
  organisation to the Libertarian Alliance. Its mission is to coordinate
  various initiatives in the defence of individual liberty throughout the
  world.

  RELEASE ENDS

  -- 
  Dr. Chris R. Tame, Director
  Libertarian Alliance | "The secret of Happiness is Freedom, |
  25 Chapter Chambers | and the secret of Freedom is Courage" |
  Esterbrooke Street | Pericles' Funeral Oration (431BC)
  London SW1P 4NN
  England

  Tel: 020 7821 5502
  Fax: 020 7834 2031
  Personal Email: chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  LA Email: admin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  LA Web Site: <http://www.libertarian.co.uk
  Free Life Web Site: <http://www.libertarian.co.uk/freelife
  The Hampden Press Website: <http://www.hampdenpress.co.uk
  LA Forum: groups.yahoo.com/group/libertarian-alliance-forum

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Message #22714
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 05:17:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Doug Skrecky <oberon@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: dietary supplement abolishes age-related cognitive decline

Exp Biol Med (Maywood). 2003 Jul;228(7):800-10.
A  dietary supplement abolishes age-related cognitive decline in
transgenic mice expressing elevated free radical processes.

        We previously found that transgenic mice overexpressing growth
hormone (TGM) have elevated and progressively increasing free radical
processes in brain that strongly correlates with reduced survivorship.
Young mature TGM, however, displayed vastly enhanced learning of an
eight-choice cued maze and qualitatively different learning curves than
normal controls. Here we document the age-related patterns in learning
ability of TGM and normal mice. Learning appeared inferior in both
genotypes of very young mice but TGM were confirmed to be superior to
normal mice upon maturity. Older TGM, however, showed rapid age-related
loss of their exceptional learning, whereas normal mice at 1 year of age
showed little change. The cognitive decline of TGM was abolished by a
complex "anti-aging" dietary supplement formulated to promote membrane
and mitochondrial integrity, increase insulin sensitivity, reduce reactive
oxygen and nitrogen species, and ameliorate inflammation. Results are
discussed in the context of reactive oxygen and nitrogen species,
long-term potentiation, learning, aging and neuropathology, based on
known impacts of the growth hormone axis on the brain, and
characteristics of TGM.

Comment by poster:
 Old treated TGM exhibited even greater learning ability than young TGM.

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Message #22715
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:18:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Randall Burns <randall_burns@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #22708 - #22711

Phillip Rhoades wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
People banking on future technology to produce more
food and other technologies to move people to
space/Mars to solve population problems  
are dreaming if they think these are short-term
solutions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I don't think space is a short-term solution at this
point. The best immediate solution for
hunger/agricultural sprawl I've seen is farming the
ocean deserts(areas in the ocean with very little
biological activity). This is a technology that is
available virtually immediately. Space development
_could_ have been available now, but Western elites
lost their nerve(which means they obviously need
replacement). As it is now, if we are _lucky_, and we
get some appropriately motivated leadership the next
10-15 years, we might see some actual development of
space in 25-35 years. I'd expect it to be 40-50 years
before we see a space elevator or the equivalent.

Still I think space is important. Why? Because folks
need a hope for a future that is viable long term.
Once humanity gets off this rock, the resource base
expands dramatically. I would rather have world
leaders worried about their place in a history in
which the bulk of humanity is a space-faring
civilization than worried about their place in a
history in which humanity has reduced its numbers to
that which is sustainable on humanity's traditional
territories on earth. I suspect that the current
population on earth _will_ get reduced over time, the
question is will it just be a nasty battle or a
migration with someplace to go.


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

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Message #22716
From: j.t.searcy@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re.: overpopulation
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:29:32 +0000

Lots of discussion about over population but no offers of a solution. Here's 
one for the statist: Ban birth. All new babies are killed (under penalty of 
death to the woman or person who delivers said baby). Any other suggestions? 
I can entertain other options, but any that do not include government would 
be difficult to implement. People enjoy screwing. Most people are irrational. 
Good luck with this problem (if it is even real). Personally if cryonics 
works and I am returned to life, I volunteer to leave earth and only return 
for short visits! My personal solution.
Jerry Searcy

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Message #22717
From: "Peter Voss" <peter@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: SoCal Cryofeast - Sunday, Dec 7Th, 2003 - 3 to 7pm
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:31:32 -0700

CRYONICISTS and FRIENDS



YOU RE INVITED

TO THE SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA CRYOFEAST



HOSTED BY

DAVID KEKICH and Louise Gold



DATE:  SUNDAY, DECEMBER 7, 2003



DATE:  Time:  3:00 p.m. until 7:00 p.m.



RSVP: EMAIL LOUISE@xxxxxxxxxxx



PHONE:  310.265.8644 (DAVID)

310.822.4533 (LOUISE)



Location:  1533 VIA LeON

 Palos Verdes Estates, CA 90274



See DIRECTIONS BELOW








please bring a dish and favorite beverage to share along with your interest
in cryonics and super-longevity.



this will be a casual afternoon party held both indoors and outdoors.  David
 s house has large decks with ocean views.  IT CAN get chilly,so please
dress accordingly.



THIS FEaST IS FOR any MEMBERS of cryonics organizations AND THOSE SERIOUSLY
INTERESTED in cryonics.



Please RSVP via email (louise@optimal) or telephone or snail mail and let us
know what food and drink items you will bring.  We do ask that no junk food
be brought (chips, cookies, etc.)



Hope to see you on the 7TH of december!



David kekich and Louise Gold










DRIVING DIRECTIONS TO DAVID KEKICH S HOME




If you're going south on the 405:



Take the 405 Freeway south and exit at Hawthorne Blvd.



Take Hawthorne Blvd south (right turn)



Cross Pacific Coast Highway and continue up Hawthorne (up the hill).



Go past the Peninsula Shopping center on your left. Turn right on Granvia
Altamira (2nd light after the shopping center). There's a 711 store and a
Mobile station on the right corners.



Go past the Palos Verdes Estates sign in the middle of the road and make an
immediate left on Cerritos.



Turn left at the first stop sign (Paseo La Cresta).



Turn left at the next stop sign (Via Coronel).



Turn right at the 3rd stop sign (Via Leon). If you hit a speed bump, you
went too far.



I'm the last house on the right (1533 Via Leon)

____________________________________________________________________________
__




If you're coming up Hawthorne Blvd. from Pacific Coast Highway:



Go past the Peninsula Shopping center on your left. Turn right on Granvia
Altamira (2nd light after the shopping center). There's a 711 store and a
Mobile station on the right corners.



Go past the Palos Verdes Estates sign and make an immediate left on
Cerritos.



Turn left at the first stop sign (Paseo La Cresta).



Turn left at the next stop sign (Via Coronel).



Turn right at the 3rd stop sign (Via Leon).



We're the last house on the right (1533 Via Leon)




If you're coming from LAX:



Take Sepulveda Blvd. (CA-1) south for about 15 minutes. Go through
Manhattan, Hermosa and Redondo Beach.



In Redondo, you'll see Avenues G, H, etc.. Sepulveda turns into Pacific
Coast Highway. Turn right on Palos Verdes Drive. Bristol Farms will be on
your left on PCH and a rib restaurant will be on your right.



Keep bearing to your right, and drive along the coast for about 3 miles.
You'll come to a stop sign. Turn left on Via Coronel. Stay on Via Coronel
for about 1.6 miles. Less than 1/2 way, you'll see a Y sign on the road.
Right after that, bear sharply to your right.



Right after you cross 2 speed bumps, turn left at the stop sign (Via Leon).
We're the last house on the right, 1533 Via Leon. Total drive is 30-35
minutes with light traffic. Call 310-265-8644 if you get lost.

______________________________________________________________________



If you're coming north on the 405:



Take the 405 Freeway north and exit at 110 south. Take the Pacific Coast
Highway exit.



Turn right on PCH (west).



Take Hawthorne Blvd south (left turn). There is a U-Haul office on the SW
corner of PCH and Hawthorne.



Go past the Peninsula Shopping center on your left. Turn right on Granvia
Altamira (2nd light after the shopping center). There's a 711 store and a
Mobile station on the right corners.



Go past the Palos Verdes Estates sign in the middle of the road and make an
immediate left on Cerritos.



Turn left at the first stop sign (Paseo La Cresta).



Turn left at the next stop sign (Via Coronel).



Turn right at the 3rd stop sign (Via Leon). If you hit a speed bump, you
went too far.



I'm the last house on the right (1533 Via Leon)




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Message #22718
From: "Mark Plus" <markplus@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Economist mag on the photosynthetic value of fossil fuels
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:43:45 -0700

This goes to show how way out of equilibrium we've gotten with our 
dependence on fossil fuels.  [Mark Plus]

http://www.economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2155375

Fossil fuels

Buried losses

Oct 23rd 2003