CryoNet #22696 - #22699

CryoNet - Mon 20 Oct 2003

    #22696: Re: right to life and right to free speech [John de Rivaz]
    #22697: Re: Platt on Poulation [Bob]
    #22698: A new tack on cancer fighting [Olaf Henny]
    #22699: How to find cooperative funeral directors [Henry R. Hirsch]

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Message #22696
From: "John de Rivaz" <John@xxxxxxxxxxx>
References: <20031019090000.32096.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: right to life and right to free speech
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:00:51 +0100

It seems clear that the US's government's biotech regulators are denying
people their Constitutional right to life if they prevent research into
lifespan extension.

But I am not sure to what extent they are not allowed to talk about it.

I would imagine that if any US government tried to legislate against
research designed to extend lifespan such legislation would get rejected by
the courts as unconstitutional. However if there is a powerful enough orator
capable of swaying enough public opinion, then presumably the constitution
could be changed giving a right to life of limited duration (say 65 years or
whatever). But such a measure is likely to produce strong feeling on both
sides, and could even lead to civil war or a terrorist movement that would
be very hard to suppress.

 -- 
Sincerely, John de Rivaz:  http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy,  Nomad .. and
more

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Message #22697
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 06:03:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bob <thimblerig101@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Platt on Poulation

Platt wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Mark Plus is still worried about population, although
I find
it hard to understand why.

>>>>>>>>>>>


Charles, you cite a report or 2 to support your case
that those concerned with overpopulation are Chicken
Littles, but is it possible that the entities
generating such reports have agendas? Are they paid to
say what others want them to? I think it possible, and
even likely, given the forces and motivations in play.

Will there be adverse consequences for those who write
such reports if 100 years from now, they are proven
wrong, and population grows much faster than they
predicted? I doubt it.

I am talking about the forces that want more
immigration-driven population growth. Frankly, I see a
lot of evidence that corporations and their lobbyists
and the various governments here in the USA find high
immigration rates to be very desirable: it increases
the labor supply, thus decreasing wages, which
corporate lobbies like. 

And it increases the population, obviously, which the
govt likes.  

Hmm, more crowded and lower wages....great news...if
you are a wealthy landowner or investor.  That leaves
most of us out.

So, therefore, with these powerful and well-funded
entities available to influence reports such as the
one you quoted, I find it likely that such reports are
slanted--to say the least.

I find other sources more believable, given the
evidence of tremendous population growth I see around
me. Also, I find it likely that immigrants will have
birth rates well above replacement levels here in the
USA.

Take a gander at some other population growth graphs:

http://www.numbersusa.com/overpopulation/headed2.html

http://www.numbersusa.com/overpopulation/headed3.html

http://www.susps.org/overview/population.html

http://www.susps.org/overview/numbers.html


These graphs seem to tell a different story than the
scenario you set out for us.  Some of the graphs seem
to have an slight exponential increase to them.

And, furthermore, whenever, you (and other freemarket
libertarians etc) broach this subject on cryonet, you
seem to always come to the same conclusion--that
population growth will level off and decrease at some
point in the future. 

Well, so what? That says nothing about the hellacious
and almost certainly dangerous and unstable conditions
the USA will encounter along that path, thanks to
defacto open borders.

And this is not even touching on the TYPE of
population increases brought on by current immigration
trends, with the almost certain deleterious effects of
language-based balkanization, and other negative
effects of the present immigration....

You also wrote:
>>>>
Therefore the population growth
that still exists in the US is caused almost entirely
by
immigration. If an agricultural crisis develops (which
I find
totally implausible) obviously immigration quotas will
be
revised downward.
>>>>

Really? You know, I really have to wonder whether you
are seriously out of touch with how the world works,
being way out there in the Arizona brush.  The world
does not really operate that cleanly and efficiently,
as you apparently envision when you write about how
obvious it would be that "immigration quotas would be
revised downward" if we got short on food. Umm....how
can I put this? How about a quote from the "Private
Hudson" character in the movie Aliens: "Maybe you
ain't been keeping track of current events, but we
just got our asses kicked, man!"

What I am trying to say is we are no longer living in
a relatively small, homogenous, well-organized and
controllable country, as many of the western european
countries still are to a degree, and as your boyhood
England was, and as the USA was once in the 50s and
60s.  We may very well be headed for the type of
semi-chaotic situation we see in most 3rd world
countries.  Revising immigration quotas downward may
well be an empty gesture, if current trends continue.

The immigrants are coming here whether we want them or
not, short of effectively declaring war on illegal
immigration, with troops, stationed on the border,
etc. If food is in short supply here in the USA, how
do you think Mexico is going to fare?  

And to go one step further, when I say that
"immigrants are coming here whether we want them or
not," let's just admit that most Americans do NOT want
more immigrants (polls show that 55-80% of all
Americans want less immigration). So, again, these
powerful entities called "corporate lobbies" and the
"government" do the wanting.

Anyway, just some of my thoughts on this subject. Has
not much to do with cryonics per se, but a lot to do
with what is going to happen to the USA while we wait
in our dewars for the development of the type of
country that can someday revive us. So, not exactly
off-topic. 

Maybe I am wrong--I sure hope so.


=====
----Bob

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

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Message #22698
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 12:11:27 -0700
From: Olaf Henny <olafh@xxxxxxx>
Subject: A new tack on cancer fighting
References: <20031016090000.68357.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

New attack on cancer
By Jen Kelly
20 October 2003

CANCER patients will be injected with their own blood cells,
newly armed with acancer-fighting gene, in a world-first
treatment created in Melbourne.

Three jabs of genetically engineered white blood cells into
cancer-riddled mice left them disease-free, paving the way
for human trials. ...
See the whole article at:
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7610398%255E421,00.html

Best,
Olaf

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Message #22699
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:38:06 -0400
From: "Henry R. Hirsch" <hrhirsch@xxxxxxx>
Subject: How to find cooperative funeral directors

My method: Make an appointment to see the head mortician. When you go, look 
like a serious cash customer. Jacket, necktie, pressed slacks, haircut, 
shave, etc. Don't be apologetic about cryonics, but don't dwell on the 
subject. Act as if you were just another customer shopping for a plot in 
the cemetery. The funeral director will treat you with due respect if he 
believes it will be profitable to do so. Maybe it was just luck, but this 
worked for me in both of the major funeral homes here in Lexington, KY. One 
of the directors was so eager that I went further asked him what he would 
do if the airline refused to handle a corpse that was not embalmed or if 
the airport was shut down due to weather. He said he had a 4-wheel drive 
truck and could make the 400-mile run to Detroit under any conditions. Now 
that's what I call cooperative!

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