CryoNet #22636 - #22643

CryoNet - Sun 5 Oct 2003

    #22636: a safe haven for cryonics? [Christine Gaspar]
    #22637: Re: CryoNet #22632   Plastination [Brent Fox]
    #22638: CO2phobia [WalkerBill]
    #22639: Rick's apology [Charles Platt]
    #22640: EPO [Basie]
    #22641: Re.: post # 22635 [j.t.searcy]
    #22642: My proposal for life extension - long term [Bill Warner]
    #22643: 108'th update on fly longevity experiments [Doug Skrecky]

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Message #22636
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 02:17:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christine Gaspar <christinegaspar1@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: a safe haven for cryonics?

--0-354301000-1065259065=:95387

With regards to the difficulties surrounding Alcor and CI these days, one can 
always consider relocating cryonics services to Canada. Here you have a nice 
little group of cryonicists that are slowly increasing their potential, a great 
exchange rate for Americans, and a nice peaceful neutral country filled with 
non-radicals. Canada the polite and the politically correct nation of people 
who rarely put up a fuss, might be the ideal place for safe cryonics. Hell, 
Ontario (Canada) now offers legalized gay marriages. We are decriminalizing the 
use of marijuana. Surely we wont put up a fuss if an American cryonics 
organization decides to set up shop here.
I'm always looking for an opportunity to plug my idea of a cryonics facility 
here in Toronto. I couldn't let this opportunity go unsolicited.
:)
Christine Gaspar- speaking for myself, not the Cryonics Society of Canada

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Message #22637
From: "Brent Fox" <bfox@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #22632   Plastination
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 09:58:13 -0400

I find the process of plastination interesting,  and I wonder myself if it
could be used as an Emergency Alternative.   Has any basic research been
done?   I would think that a starting point would be to take some animal
tissue and examine the cellular structure at each level of the plastination
process to note changes.   Another question to ask is how long will the
polymer last, before it starts to break down?

Brent

>Message #22632
>References: <20031003090003.55265.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:50:02 +0200 (CEST)
>Subject: Re: Alcor
>From: "D. den Otter" <otter2@xxxxxxxxx>

>Indeed. As always: http://www.transtopia.org/plastination.html There are
>various chemical, freeze drying & mixed options, some of which could be
>relatively cheap and easy to implement. In all cases handling, storage,
>and (emergency) transportation would be a piece of cake compared to
>cryonics.

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Message #22638
From: WalkerBill@xxxxxxx
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 10:31:30 EDT
Subject: CO2phobia

>Summary: we've seen what an increase of 87 ppm did. We can't
really take another 170 ppm (twice that) without real
problems. 

Let's not be parochial here. The planet had far more life when the CO2 level 
was closer to 1% than the current 0.037%. In fact, it may be the only way to 
stop an Ice Age. So you have to replace your poodle with a Deinonychus, it's 
better than global ice sheets.

>Time for wind power and pebble bed fission reactors,

Can't argue with that. Some He-3/deuterium reactors would be nice too, while 
we're discussing the alternate world where people are numerate enough to know 
that coal power plants release 100 times the radioactivity that even 
old-technology fission plants do.

Steve, it's time for you to sell that poodle farm in Bangladesh and get with 
the program.


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Message #22639
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:50:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Charles Platt <other@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Rick's apology

Today I read:

"I also am very impressed with Rick Potvin's letter of
apology to Charles Platt. Such humility is rare. I
believe Charles should graciously and publicly accept
the apology."

I sent personal email to Rick thanking him and accepting his
apology, on the same day that I read it. Since I asked for
the apology, and he provided it, naturally I was happy with
the outcome and appreciate his willingness to rethink his
original position.

--CP

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Message #22640
From: "Basie" <coetzeebasie@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: EPO
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 15:15:02 -0400

"Promising results in animal studies
The researchers found that animals given a single dose of EPO and then given
the equivalent of an ischaemic heart attack suffered less severe attacks.
That's because EPO somehow reduced programmed cell death in heart cells, the
study says.

The finding comes from a Thomas Jefferson University Medical College study
in the Oct. 1 issue of the Journal of Clinical Investigation."



Probable also can reduce programmed cell death in brain cells.



Basie

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Message #22641
From: j.t.searcy@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re.: post # 22635
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 20:02:19 +0000

Lets not forget, in addition to pebble bed fission and wind ... hydrogen!
JTS

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Message #22642
From: "Bill Warner" <bawarner@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: My proposal for life extension - long term
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 18:04:55 -0500

I recently got involved in the life extension paradigm so my idea may
have 
already been suggested, discussed and dissected. It could be that my
idea is 
basic and obvious to those that have been involved for awhile. Feel free
to 
let me know.
 
The basis of my idea (or assumptions) is: 
1.) The telomere is composed of a repeating genetic sequence.
2.) The telomeres of chromosomes shorten each time a cell divides.
3.) This shortening of the telomere is the basis of aging (as I
understand it, 
this is still controversial).
4.) The shortening of the telomere uncovers additional genes that code
for 
aging and eventually death.
5.) Successful cells are based on hundreds of enzymes (or more) that do
a 
specific task for the cell. Of course, these enzymes (proteins) are
created by 
the codes in the DNA itself.
6.) We will be able to design biological proteins to perform specific
tasks or 
design nanobots to perform specific tasks.
 
What needs to be developed is either a complex biological molecule 
(complex like the mitochondria) or a nanobot that performs these
specific 
(albeit involved) tasks:
1.) penetrate cell membranes-
2.) penetrate the nucleus-
3.) not elicit a negative immune response-
4.) determine that the cell is currently not in the process dividing-
5.) locate the end of a chromosome- 
6.) "walk" the chromosome (analogous to the mitochondria walking the 
mRNA to produce proteins)-
7.) Recognize the specific genetic sequence that characterize the
telomere 
and count the telomere sequences-
8.) Research would have to tell us how many sequences characterize those
of 
a 25 year old (assuming 25 is our target age).  
9.) If it reaches the "end" of the telomere without reaching the target
count 
that it has been programmed with, it would assemble a proper telomere 
sequence and attach it to the end of the telomere (or it would attach a
pre-
assembled sequence that it is "carrying"-maybe it wouldn't seek out the
end 
of a chromosome until it has assembled a sequence for when it needs it).
10.) If it reaches the target count of telomere sequences that it has
been 
programmed with, it would detach from the chromosome having done 
nothing but having walked the telomere.
11.) Continually repeat from 4.)
12.) If it meets up with another just like itself, one of the two
decides to go 
to another cell. They'd be programmed to have the ability to arbitrate
this 
decision between them or each one could have an identifying label and
the 
one with the label that is smallest would be the one to move on.
13.) They could be given the ability to determine if they're damaged.
They'd 
then exit the cell and "allow" themselves to be flushed from the body.
14.) They wouldn't be given the ability to replicate though so they
couldn't 
"develop or evolve" problems. You'd be provided with the proper quantity
of 
them through injections. Eventually, you'd be supplied with as many of
them 
as the number of cells in your body. Since your body continues to divide

cells, you'd re-supply yourself with them at regular intervals. ...or
maybe I'm 
just not imaginative enough to consider how they'd create a copy of 
themselves at the right time and have a copy move to the newly divided
cell.
15.) If something unforeseen happens, they'd be given the ability to
flush 
themselves from the person they've been injected into upon some kind of 
signal.
16.) To accomplish this list of "tasks", they'd have to make use of
available 
energy (like ATP) and molecular building blocks.
 
I don't know a lot about biology and nanotechnology yet, but these are
my 
initial musings. What do you think? Is this the direction we should be 
pushing research. Will it arrive in time for us? :-)
 
I'm going to post this to several places to get the discussion going so
don't be 
surprised (or upset) if you see it somewhere else too.
 
Thanks for considering my proposal!
 
Bill Warner


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Message #22643
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 17:30:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Doug Skrecky <oberon@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: 108'th update on fly longevity experiments

    This is the 108'th update of my fly longevity experiments. Average
temperature was 25.3 C during this run. Estimated maximal longevity using
the formula (363 - T*11.2) is 80 days.
    Here I retest oxymol, and pomegranate, and look to see if product
freshness had any impact on the benefits previously shown by these two
food supplements.
    To my great surprise no consistant effect of product freshness on
survival was demonstrated. Whatever the active ingrediants are, they must
be very stable indeed. As previously shown in run #98, oxymol again beat
pomegranate, with the 2 tsp dose being somewhat more effective than 1
tsp.

Run #108                       Percent Survival on Day
supplement                10  15 20 26 32 37 43 48 53 58 63 68
______________________________________________________________
control one               93  88 79 76 52 36 17  7  0  -  -  -
control two               80  80 77 63 34 31  9  6  0  -  -  -
oxymol, new 1 tsp        100  93 85 85 75 63 53 28 23  3  0  -
oxymol, old 1 tsp         89  83 83 83 66 57 34 29 11  6  0  -
oxymol, new 2 tsp        100  95 90 86 86 76 57 43 10  5  5  0
oxymol, old 2 tsp        100 100 96 92 80 68 52 40 24 16  0  -
pomegranate, new 1/2 tsp  96  87 87 83 61 57 26 22 13  9  0  -
pomegranate, old 1/2 tsp  95  95 95 95 70 60 40 20 15  5  5  0
pomegranate, new 1 tsp   100  96 92 96 71 58 33 21 21 13  0  -
pomegranate, old 1 tsp   100  91 91 86 73 50 32 14  0  -  -  -
pom 1/2 tsp & oxy 1 tsp  100  94 94 94 82 65 41 29 12  0  -  -

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