Subject: Re: Fellow ex-I-Fellow on ragging - msg#00050

List: culture.india.sarai.reader

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Dear Shivam,

thanks to you, and to your anoymous correspondent for forwarding the mail on ragging to the list. I for one have always been deeply uncomfortable with the 'lightness' with which 'ragging' is treated. I have nothing against people pushing the limits with each other in terms of what they think is acceptable between them in terms of behaviour. Horesplay, teasing, even violence in different forms is part of the normal warp and weft of daily life. But I think ragging takes things on to a different register altogether. It introduces the element of an a priori hierarchy into the mix of the rough edges of interaction between people wh really speaking, are peers. It is this unthinking acceptance of the element of hierarchy which underlies ragging that I find most disturbing. And I think that the reason why many 'progressive intellectuals' within our university community are willing to not take a tough line on ragging is because, actually, they have no problems with the playing out of the idea of an a priori hierarchy in everyday life. It does not surprise me in the least when someone who is openly sexist, or casteist or communal is also someone who invests heavily in the idea of ragging. What is interesting to ask is why 'ragging' is looked upon so benignly by people who would otherwise leave no stone unturned in demonstrating how

Perhaps this ties in to a continuing, secret and paradoxical affection that many amongst us (especially those who claim for themselves the mantle of a so called enlightened liberality- a non sexist, anti communal, anti casteist identity) have for the feudal and casteist norms that normalize hierarchy - where the cutting remark, the sardonic sneer, the putting someone in their place, the ordering people about, and the whole discourse of 'aukad' is so much a part of the way in which people unthinkingly behave with one another. It is interesting to see how passionate people become in the 'defence' of ragging, once they are provoked into a reflection on their own self and where they stand, or have stood, and it is interesting ask why this should be do. Let me offer a speculative attempt towards an answer, perhaps because in all other spheres of life it is difficult for progressive, liberal, open-minded, left leaning, intellectuals to sustain some kind of naturalized 'hierarchy' argument, the intimate sphere of 'hostels, college, canteen' can be in some senses seen as the secret last resort of the theatre of naturalized hierarchy. No one can say any longer that 'domestic violence' or the psychological humiliation of a new bride is one way for a husband, the in-laws and the new bried to 'get to know' each other. So where else can progressive intellectuals locate and a small niche of justifiable hierarchical domination - in the no less intimate sphere of the hostel and the canteen.

I do not take this space lightly, in a country where the college, the hostel is a formative space for millions of young people, many of whom leave cloistered worlds at home, or the environment of small towns, or villages, to come to cities to study, the first encounter with the 'enlightened liberality' of the university is the indifference of the faculty and the violence of the ragger. I am sure it introduces something into the behaviour patterns of millions of Indian men and women, just as I am sure that the inhumanity of the board exam system introduces lifelong feelings of competitiveness, anxiety and lack of confidence. It is interesting that in all the debate over the 'content' of education in our country, with secularists and communalists crying themselves hoarse about what people should or should not read in their textbooks, so little attention is paid to the actual ambience and environment of educational institutions. You can have the most squeaky clean liberal and secular textbooks in the world, but the way in which campus life is actually led, with its written and unwritten codes of domination and subordination, its arcane labyrinth of 'jats', 'biharis' , 'chinkies', 'mossies' and 'freshers' and 'fresh maal' will continue to produce closet and open little fascists of every political and apolitical colour and persuasion.

Shivam wrote:

Dear esteemed readers of the (crumbling :) ) Sarai Reader List:

I thought I wouldn't do this, but it was too tempting to subject you
to another post on ragging.

I recently exchanged some emails with a fellow ex-I-Fellow, excerpts
from which she has allowed me to put on this list.

In a tea break during the I Fellows workshop, I had overheard someone
making fun of The Stop Ragging Campaign. Making fun of anything is
very easy, but understanding it may be a completely different ball
game.

Cheers
Shivam

o o o o o

Hi!

I read about your Stop Ragging Campaign through Sarai Reader List.

I recently joined a post graduate institute ***. I am filled with
anger and disgust that in a PG institute with the knowledge of the
Administration ragging took place.

As I never have stayed in a Hostel all though my life, it took me few
moments why we were asked to assemble on the terrace. As each of us
were being ragged, i was scared. Because there were no right answers
to their questions and the whole incident was very unpredictable. You
never know what would happen next.....I just broke down out of
confusion. it was really strange.

I must confess that there are many seniors who were against the whole
affair. They tried their best but they were far and few of them.

Next day, before ragging began I yelled at the seniors threatening
them with a FIR. Suddenly, after abuses hurled...everything cooled
down and i was told that this was a ice breaking session and that as i
girl i have to get strong to face the male dominated industry that i
will be working in....

After the ragging session was over, the very same seniors who were
involved in ragging turned out to be 'very nice people'. Everybody
behaves as if nothing as happened.

I just want to read a bit about the 'history' ragging...cud u please.
help me with books, websites or any info.

Thanking You,
with warm regards,
<name deleted>

o o o

Hi,

I'm glad you spoke up and threatened them with an FIR. At least you
knew that it is punishable. See www.stopragging.org.

The important this is for you to be able to bring about a change next year.

Best wishes and keep me updated,
Shivam

o o o

Hi!
Your website is exhaustive. Your dedication and work is reflected in
it.....I am going through it page by page......

thanks for everything.
Please do inform me if u need any help.

With warm regards,
<name deleted>

o o o o

Excerpt from another mail from her:

yes, the ragging has stopped in my institute. In fact my batch,
confronted the seniors within ten days of ragging. We told them
clearly that we will just not attend the ragging sessions. After that
the ragging did not take place. There was only uncomfortable silence.
we also had a freshers party.

Shivam, but i must confess that I still cannot forget those endless
nights. In all the little years of my teaching, I would categorically
tell students not to fear teachers. Fear is the worst kind of abuse.
Unless we do not make the means to education non violent, we really
cannot stop violence around us. I might sound idealistic but ceratinly
i do not deny facts. The fact of ragging.

o o o o o
_________________________________________
reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
Critiques & Collaborations
To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request@xxxxxxxxx with subscribe in
the subject header.
List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>

--
Shuddhabrata Sengupta (Raqs Media Collective)
The Sarai Programme
Centre for the Study of Developing Societies (CSDS)
29 Rajpur Road, Delhi 110054, India
Phone : + 91 11 23960040
Fax : + 91 11 23943450
E Mail : shuddha@xxxxxxxxx
http://www.sarai.net
http://www.raqsmediacollective.net

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Re: Fellow ex-I-Fellow on ragging

Shivam, Good that you have raised the issue again. Yes the 'joke' form is a way to demean something. I live in Kolkata and have heard from some left-intellectuals that 'too much is being made out of ragging, which is a different way to get friendly to the juniors'! Amit Shivam <shivam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Dear esteemed readers of the (crumbling :) ) Sarai Reader List:I thought I wouldn't do this, but it was too tempting to subject youto another post on ragging.I recently exchanged some emails with a fellow ex-I-Fellow, excerptsfrom which she has allowed me to put on this list.In a tea break during the I Fellows workshop, I had overheard someonemaking fun of The Stop Ragging Campaign. Making fun of anything isvery easy, but understanding it may be a completely different ballgame.CheersShivamo o o o oHi!I read about your Stop Ragging Campaign through Sarai Reader List.I recently joined a post graduate institute ***. I am filled withanger and disgust that in a PG institute with the knowledge of theAdministration ragging took place.As I never have stayed in a Hostel all though my life, it took me fewmoments why we were asked to assemble on the terrace. As each of uswere being ragged, i was scared. Because there were no right answersto their questions and the whole incident was very unpredictable. Younever know what would happen next.....I just broke down out ofconfusion. it was really strange.I must confess that there are many seniors who were against the wholeaffair. They tried their best but they were far and few of them.Next day, before ragging began I yelled at the seniors threateningthem with a FIR. Suddenly, after abuses hurled...everything cooleddown and i was told that this was a ice breaking session and that as igirl i have to get strong to face the male dominated industry that iwill be working in....After the ragging session was over, the very same seniors who wereinvolved in ragging turned out to be 'very nice people'. Everybodybehaves as if nothing as happened.I just want to read a bit about the 'history' ragging...cud u please.help me with books, websites or any info.Thanking You,with warm regards,o o oHi,I'm glad you spoke up and threatened them with an FIR. At least youknew that it is punishable. See www.stopragging.org.The important this is for you to be able to bring about a change next year.Best wishes and keep me updated,Shivamo o oHi!Your website is exhaustive. Your dedication and work is reflected init.....I am going through it page by page......thanks for everything.Please do inform me if u need any help.With warm regards,o o o oExcerpt from another mail from her:yes, the ragging has stopped in my institute. In fact my batch,confronted the seniors within ten days of ragging. We told themclearly that we will just not attend the ragging sessions. After thatthe ragging did not take place. There was only uncomfortable silence.we also had a freshers party.Shivam, but i must confess that I still cannot forget those endlessnights. In all the little years of my teaching, I would categoricallytell students not to fear teachers. Fear is the worst kind of abuse.Unless we do not make the means to education non violent, we reallycannot stop violence around us. I might sound idealistic but ceratinlyi do not deny facts. The fact of ragging.o o o o o_________________________________________reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.Critiques & CollaborationsTo subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request@xxxxxxxxx with subscribe in the subject header.List archive: Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner now.

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Re: Of lawyers and corporate scandals

Amit, Thank you so much for this piece whose spirit and letter I strongly endorse. I beleive that th ereturn of morality to law, politics and business is imminent, at least as a minority movement. And no 20th century figure better exemplifies what that might mean than Gandhi. A case can be made that some features of the information revolution support a shift towards more ethical approaches to public responsibilities, as in this BBC programme: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4271524.stm I have recently published an essay, The Hit Man's Dilemma: or business, personal and impersonal, which explores the apparent contradiction symbolised by a fictional gangster caught between huamnity and inhumanity. The argument takes in corporate privatisation of the cultural comons through intelelctual property or 'information feudalism'. Some copies of this are being distributed through Lawrence Liang's Alternative Legal Forum in Bangalore. But a similar version is avaliable online at: http://www.thememorybank.co.uk/publications/thmd Keith Hart

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Re: Fellow ex-I-Fellow on ragging

Dear Shuddha, Thanks for eloquently saying what I have been trying to for a long time. More than ragging itself is the status of ragging as a politically correct activity that is disturbing. You have set me thinking on how and why people come to have the political inclinations that they do. Regards Shivam On 10/14/05, Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Dear Shivam, > > thanks to you, and to your anoymous correspondent for forwarding the > mail on ragging to the list. I for one have always been deeply > uncomfortable with the 'lightness' with which 'ragging' is treated. I > have nothing against people pushing the limits with each other in terms > of what they think is acceptable between them in terms of behaviour. > Horesplay, teasing, even violence in different forms is part of the > normal warp and weft of daily life. But I think ragging takes things on > to a different register altogether. It introduces the element of an a > priori hierarchy into the mix of the rough edges of interaction between > people wh really speaking, are peers. It is this unthinking acceptance > of the element of hierarchy which underlies ragging that I find most > disturbing. And I think that the reason why many 'progressive > intellectuals' within our university community are willing to not take a > tough line on ragging is because, actually, they have no problems with > the playing out of the idea of an a priori hierarchy in everyday life. > It does not surprise me in the least when someone who is openly sexist, > or casteist or communal is also someone who invests heavily in the idea > of ragging. What is interesting to ask is why 'ragging' is looked upon > so benignly by people who would otherwise leave no stone unturned in > demonstrating how > > Perhaps this ties in to a continuing, secret and paradoxical affection > that many amongst us (especially those who claim for themselves the > mantle of a so called enlightened liberality- a non sexist, anti > communal, anti casteist identity) have for the feudal and casteist norms > that normalize hierarchy - where the cutting remark, the sardonic sneer, > the putting someone in their place, the ordering people about, and the > whole discourse of 'aukad' is so much a part of the way in which people > unthinkingly behave with one another. It is interesting to see how > passionate people become in the 'defence' of ragging, once they are > provoked into a reflection on their own self and where they stand, or > have stood, and it is interesting ask why this should be do. Let me > offer a speculative attempt towards an answer, perhaps because in all > other spheres of life it is difficult for progressive, liberal, > open-minded, left leaning, intellectuals to sustain some kind of > naturalized 'hierarchy' argument, the intimate sphere of 'hostels, > college, canteen' can be in some senses seen as the secret last resort > of the theatre of naturalized hierarchy. No one can say any longer that > 'domestic violence' or the psychological humiliation of a new bride is > one way for a husband, the in-laws and the new bried to 'get to know' > each other. So where else can progressive intellectuals locate and a > small niche of justifiable hierarchical domination - in the no less > intimate sphere of the hostel and the canteen. > > I do not take this space lightly, in a country where the college, the > hostel is a formative space for millions of young people, many of whom > leave cloistered worlds at home, or the environment of small towns, or > villages, to come to cities to study, the first encounter with the > 'enlightened liberality' of the university is the indifference of the > faculty and the violence of the ragger. I am sure it introduces > something into the behaviour patterns of millions of Indian men and > women, just as I am sure that the inhumanity of the board exam system > introduces lifelong feelings of competitiveness, anxiety and lack of > confidence. It is interesting that in all the debate over the 'content' > of education in our country, with secularists and communalists crying > themselves hoarse about what people should or should not read in their > textbooks, so little attention is paid to the actual ambience and > environment of educational institutions. You can have the most squeaky > clean liberal and secular textbooks in the world, but the way in which > campus life is actually led, with its written and unwritten codes of > domination and subordination, its arcane labyrinth of 'jats', 'biharis' > , 'chinkies', 'mossies' and 'freshers' and 'fresh maal' will continue to > produce closet and open little fascists of every political and > apolitical colour and persuasion. > > > > > > > > Shivam wrote: > > >Dear esteemed readers of the (crumbling :) ) Sarai Reader List: > > > >I thought I wouldn't do this, but it was too tempting to subject you > >to another post on ragging. > > > >I recently exchanged some emails with a fellow ex-I-Fellow, excerpts > >from which she has allowed me to put on this list. > > > >In a tea break during the I Fellows workshop, I had overheard someone > >making fun of The Stop Ragging Campaign. Making fun of anything is > >very easy, but understanding it may be a completely different ball > >game. > > > >Cheers > >Shivam > > > > > >o o o o o > > > >Hi! > > > >I read about your Stop Ragging Campaign through Sarai Reader List. > > > >I recently joined a post graduate institute ***. I am filled with > >anger and disgust that in a PG institute with the knowledge of the > >Administration ragging took place. > > > >As I never have stayed in a Hostel all though my life, it took me few > >moments why we were asked to assemble on the terrace. As each of us > >were being ragged, i was scared. Because there were no right answers > >to their questions and the whole incident was very unpredictable. You > >never know what would happen next.....I just broke down out of > >confusion. it was really strange. > > > >I must confess that there are many seniors who were against the whole > >affair. They tried their best but they were far and few of them. > > > >Next day, before ragging began I yelled at the seniors threatening > >them with a FIR. Suddenly, after abuses hurled...everything cooled > >down and i was told that this was a ice breaking session and that as i > >girl i have to get strong to face the male dominated industry that i > >will be working in.... > > > >After the ragging session was over, the very same seniors who were > >involved in ragging turned out to be 'very nice people'. Everybody > >behaves as if nothing as happened. > > > >I just want to read a bit about the 'history' ragging...cud u please. > >help me with books, websites or any info. > > > >Thanking You, > >with warm regards, > ><name deleted> > > > >o o o > > > >Hi, > > > >I'm glad you spoke up and threatened them with an FIR. At least you > >knew that it is punishable. See www.stopragging.org. > > > >The important this is for you to be able to bring about a change next year. > > > >Best wishes and keep me updated, > >Shivam > > > >o o o > > > >Hi! > >Your website is exhaustive. Your dedication and work is reflected in > >it.....I am going through it page by page...... > > > >thanks for everything. > >Please do inform me if u need any help. > > > >With warm regards, > ><name deleted> > > > >o o o o > > > >Excerpt from another mail from her: > > > >yes, the ragging has stopped in my institute. In fact my batch, > >confronted the seniors within ten days of ragging. We told them > >clearly that we will just not attend the ragging sessions. After that > >the ragging did not take place. There was only uncomfortable silence. > >we also had a freshers party. > > > >Shivam, but i must confess that I still cannot forget those endless > >nights. In all the little years of my teaching, I would categorically > >tell students not to fear teachers. Fear is the worst kind of abuse. > >Unless we do not make the means to education non violent, we really > >cannot stop violence around us. I might sound idealistic but ceratinly > >i do not deny facts. The fact of ragging. > > > >o o o o o > >_________________________________________ > >reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >Critiques & Collaborations > >To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request@xxxxxxxxx with subscribe > >in the subject header. > >List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > -- > Shuddhabrata Sengupta (Raqs Media Collective) > The Sarai Programme > Centre for the Study of Developing Societies (CSDS) > 29 Rajpur Road, Delhi 110054, India > Phone : + 91 11 23960040 > Fax : + 91 11 23943450 > E Mail : shuddha@xxxxxxxxx > http://www.sarai.net > http://www.raqsmediacollective.net > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request@xxxxxxxxx with subscribe > in the subject header. > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > -- "We are protean. We can become anything." - MM www.shivamvij.com (Blog) | mail at shivamvij.com (Email & MSN)

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