Re: What to do if you find that you did business with a spammer?

On Friday 18 November 2005 14:27, guy keren wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Nov 2005, Uri Even-Chen wrote:
> > guy keren wrote:
> > > since spamming is not _illegal_ in _israel_, it most likely can NOT be
> > > used as a valid _legal_ reason to break out of a contract between a
> > > _israeli_ person and a _israeli_ company.
> > >
> > > please do NOT take what i write out of context - the original poster
> > > didn't ask about the morality of the issue - he asked about the
> > > legality of the issue - and the legality in israel, not in "many
> > > countries".
> >
> > I think it is legal to stop working for someone who is doing something
> > unethical or immoral.But if you have a contract and break it, you
> > might lose money and/or be sued.I think this issue has never been
> > handled in an Israeli court yet.And Israeli courts DO take in account
> > similar cases in other countries.
> >
> > Anyway, if you want to be sure, put a clause in a contract before you
> > sign it.It's better that it will be general, and not only about spam.
> > It should include any unethical or immoral action.
>
> and lets see you manage to define a general clause that any client will
> agree to sign. ("i commit to delivering the project in 6 month time,
> unless your company does anything during this period, that i find to be
> immoral, even if it has nothing to do directly with me - in such a case,
> i'll give you the half-finished material and will be free from completing
> the project". in other words "if i fill like it, i'll say that your
> selling software as non-free software is immoral in my opinion, and will
> leave you after 2 month").
>
> no, i don't think this approach can work.
>
> for the exact same reason, a company cannot fire an employee because he
> did something immorla (e.g. they found out he's gay and they are orthodox
> jews, or they found out he's a right-winged and lives in a settlement, and
> the owners are extremist lef-wingers).

Well, actually, what you describe is subjective morality. I.e: something that 
someone dims as immoral. What may potentially exist is also "objective 
morality" or "absolute morality". I.e: a kind of morality that can be deduced 
from logic and from more basic facts and assumptions (such as the biological 
nature of men and women), and as thus have a solid base.

Some philosophies believe that such systems of Morals exist and advocate one 
in particular. Nonetheless, these systems are often very different. The nice 
thing about God is that there are so many different Gods you can adhere to.

Logic is a system for reaching conclusions from a set of axioms. Hopefully, 
it's also a system for non-contradictory identification. Nevertheless, 
applied logic is much more complicated and error-prone than purely 
mathematical deduction, and is subject to many fallacies ( see 
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ ), as well as non-sequitors, 
equivocations, evasions, and other logical problems. Objectivists claim that 
Immanuel Kant's writings are filled with such deliberate errors, and I was 
able to disprove several things he said based on simple deduction and "common 
sense". (without having read all of his reasoning)

I give the traditional Neo-Tech definitions of moral and ethical here:

http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/obj-oss/obj-oss/c35.html

I consider them to be very scientific and obvious, but then again I aim to be 
a realist[1] intellectual and it is possible that others will not find them 
as obvious, especially if they are tainted by some belief system.

Regards,

        Shlomi Fish

[1] - "realist" does not mean the opposite of spiritual in this context. It 
just means aiming to perform actions that bring the most material and/or 
spiritual gain, rather than beat around the bush, or perform actions that are 
harmful to oneself or others.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish      shlomif-ik1l9ssToec+JF/nGntIXQ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Homepage:        http://www.shlomifish.org/

95% of the programmers consider 95% of the code they did not write, in the
bottom 5%.


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