The group of all things & only you can know what's best & money

This post is going both to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OurCultureOurCapitol/
and:
http://yoism.org/pipermail/discussion/

Provoked by discussion on OCOC:

(this email seriously degenerated, but I'm sending it
anyways-- I welcome suggestions / pointers on appropriate /
effective use of this medium, though I have faith that I
will eventually get around to developing ways of using it
that is better for both of us. The question is- what is the
best use of time. I know staying up late is bad, but
clearly I wished to explore a question- then one thing led
to another. Should I define and limit scope before I sit
down to write? What is most important is defining and
undertaking a course of action. The proposal for the
monastic order. The completion of the carfreeuniverse site.
hmm. Actually. I think the most important thing is to go to
bed at the appropriate time! :) 2:20 ago. )

-------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 7 May 2003, sandrine_ny wrote:

> Colin,
>
> I believe this idea to be contradictory with the two following
> statement:
> * statement 1: "reward those whose actions most benefit the group
> while shunning those individuals whose actions benefit the individual
> at the expense of the group"
> * statement 2:"the most important thing one can learn is that no one
> is better at deciding what is best for one than one's self."
>
> If the most important thing one can learn is than no one is better at
> deciding what is best for one, then how comes that one person or an
> entire group would actually judge the actions of someone and
> therefore accept or shun that person based on some belief systems?
>
> --- In OurCultureOurCapitol@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Colin Leath
> <cleath@xxxx> wrote:
> >
> > I'm thinking of staying in the states and working on
> > starting a new cult/religion.
> >
> > Its basic ethos will be to reward those whose actions most
> > benefit the group while shunning those individuals whose
> > actions benefit the individual at the expense of the group.
> >
> > Where "the group" consists of all living things.
> >
> > To avoid cultishness, the primary tenet, beyond the ethos,
> > will be: the most important thing one can learn is that no
> > one is better at deciding what is best for one than one's
> > self. To put it another way, one's most basic freedom is the
> > freedom to choose where to focus one's attention.
> >
> > The members of my cult will consist of humans who consider
> > their tribe to be "all living things."
> >


---------------------------------------------------------------




I've been hoping someone would call me on this-
I checked myself on it last night,
but as I will be developing a monastic order
http://yoism.org/pipermail/discussion/2003-May/000964.html

where these two tenets are the primary and perhaps only
abstract tenets, they & the implications of them will
have to be much more thoroughly thought out.

this also relates to Quinn's "takers" and "leavers"
concepts.


I don't see a problem in the two tenets:
they are simply recognizing what is already the case:
If you decide it's best for you to be a serial killer,
go ahead, but the rest of us will be doing everything we can
to keep those who get off on serial killing from doing what
they love.

As to how to (a) structure a culture so the person who acts
in ways that benefit yo's (his/her) self at the expense of
the group is strongly discouraged from this behavior, and
those whose actions benefit the group the most are the most
encouraged--

that is the big challenge.

but along the way we need to make sure every individual
develops yo's  ability to act on what yo thinks is
most beautiful. --> I think that, combined with creating a
culture not based on domination, may be how to get to (a)

But I don't know!


Libertarians suggest that anarcho-capitalism is the answer.
Here I would like to suggest that money _is_ evil.

[ed. note: I wrote all the below, then realized this is a
basic question for our culture and where might we develop a
policy statement?
the yoism wiki is one possibility, and lo:
http://twiki.yoism.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhatisMoney

(which, I believe, we can all add to / edit)

It's late, and I won't study that now. [I did study it, and
Orion says:  Money, in our current system, is abstracted
relationships of violence.

( and, Zerzan, who I tend to agree with:  says: get rid of
it) ]

I throw all this out in my mind and yours that we can think
of the money question, but also, how should we best develop
our collective thinking on questions for our culture?

Is a wiki sufficient?

do we just leave it to google and put up our own pages if we
care enough about a particular question?

Do we make our own book in a form like Christopher
Alexander's _a pattern language_? (the yo book... someday)

good night,
Colin

]


Sandrine's most recent comment on money:

I saw in one of the sites in one previous post "MONEY.
sucks, but without it, this gathering ain't goin' nowhere."
- this is a contracdictory statement, I find, because if
money sucks, you don't need it and if you need it, love it
for what it brings you!  If you keep finding it sucks, then
you won't find any, even to do what matters most for you.

The best illustration of the evilness of money I've found
is:
[
A powerful illustration of how communities stop controlling
their populations when resources can be bought with money:

http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC31/NorbergH.htm
found from reading: http://www.eco-action.org/dt/ladakh.html
]

But another one is: the US military
(who paid for that?)

So here's the OurCultureOurCapitol question:
how does our culture operate if not with US$ ?

http://www.newciv.org/ncn/moneyteam.html

I have yet to look at that link in detail,
but I definitely fall more in the
"money sucks" camp
than the
"love money for what it can bring you" (it brings ecosystem
destruction at a distance)

camp

:)

Colin
http://j9k.org

(If you would like to donate money in appreciaton of my
efforts, please let me know. I will be doing my best to
ensure dollars that run through my hands are somehow
miraculously channeled in such a way that they do not abet
the cause of further ecosystemic destruction. I will
probably be re-looking at David Czech's book
http://steadystate.org for more ideas

assuming, pie-in-the sky, that the Yoan Monastic Order is
able to accumulate massive amounts of monetary instruments,
what is a non-destructive or least-destructive use of these
assets? If you had Bill Gates' fortune, and were required to
dispose of it, what would be the use of that fortune that is
in the best interest of "the group of all things"?

Something along the lines of the work of the Conservation
fund (you may be more familiar with its relative, The nature
conservancy)?







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