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Re: [DISCUSS] Beam public roadmap


+1

it sounds good to me. I have some more long term ideas as well.

Regards
JB

On 20/10/2018 03:09, Ahmet Altay wrote:
> I looked at #6718, I think this is great as a starting point and not
> just a mock. I particularly like that:
> - It divides the roadmap along major component areas (SDKs, runners,
> portability). This is good because (a) it provides a complete top down
> picture and (b) allows groups of people working in these areas to build
> their own roadmaps. This division would empower people working in those
> components to build mini-roadmaps. This make sense to me because people
> with most context in those components would likely to already have some
> vision somewhere about the future of those components and they are
> already working towards realizing those. Now, they can share it with
> rest of the community and users in a structured way.
> - The other good bit is that, there is a index page that pulls major
> bits from each individual roadmap and provides a coherent list of where
> the project is going. It would be very easy for users to just look at
> this page and get a sense of the where the project is going.
> 
> I believe this break down makes it easier for the most folks in the
> community to participate in the process of building and roadmap. In my
> opinion, we can merge Kenn's _mock_ and ask people to start filling in
> the areas they care about.
> 
> Ahmet
> 
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 7:23 AM, Kenneth Knowles <kenn@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:kenn@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> 
>     I mocked up a little something
>     on https://github.com/apache/beam/pull/6718
>     <https://github.com/apache/beam/pull/6718>.
> 
>     Kenn
> 
>     On Sun, Oct 14, 2018 at 5:33 PM Thomas Weise <thw@xxxxxxxxxx
>     <mailto:thw@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> 
>         Indeed, our current in-progress subsection isn't visible enough.
>         It is also too coarse grained. Perhaps we can replace it with a
>         list of current and proposed initiatives?
> 
>         I could see the index live on the web site, but would prefer
>         individual, per-initiative pages to live on the wiki. That way
>         they are easy to maintain by respective contributors. 
> 
>         Thanks
> 
>         On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 8:06 PM Kenneth Knowles <kenn@xxxxxxxxxx
>         <mailto:kenn@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> 
>             I think we can easily steer clear of those concerns. It
>             should not look like a company's roadmap. This is just a
>             term that users search for and ask for. It might be an
>             incremental improvement
>             on https://beam.apache.org/contribute/#works-in-progress
>             <https://beam.apache.org/contribute/#works-in-progress> to
>             present it more for users, to just give them a picture of
>             the trajectory. For example, Beam Python on Flink would
>             probably be of considerable interest but it is buried at
>             https://beam.apache.org/contribute/portability/#status
>             <https://beam.apache.org/contribute/portability/#status>.
> 
>             Kenn
> 
>             On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 6:49 PM Thomas Weise <thw@xxxxxxxxxx
>             <mailto:thw@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> 
>                 As I understand it the term "roadmap" is not favored. It
>                 may convey the impression of an outside entity that
>                 controls what is being worked on and when. At least in
>                 theory contributions are volunteer work and individuals
>                 decide what they take up. There are projects that have a
>                 "list of initiatives" or "improvement proposals" that
>                 are either in idea phase or ongoing. Those provide an
>                 idea what is on the radar and perhaps that is a
>                 sufficient for those looking for the overall direction? 
> 
> 
>                 On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 3:08 PM Kenneth Knowles
>                 <kenn@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kenn@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> 
>                     Did some searching about to see what other projects
>                     have done. Most OSS projects with open governance
>                     don't actually have such a thing AFAICT. Here are
>                     some from various [types of] projects. Please
>                     contribute links for any project you can think of
>                     that might be interesting examples.
> 
>                     My personal favorite for readability and content is
>                     Bazel. It does not do timelines, but says what they
>                     are most focused on. It has fewer, larger, items
>                     than our "Ongoing Projects" section. Then some
>                     breakouts into roadmaps for sub-bits.
> 
>                     Apache Flink (roadmap doc is stale, FLIPs nice and
>                     readable though)
>                      -
>                     https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Flink+Release+and+Feature+Plan
>                     <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Flink+Release+and+Feature+Plan>
>                      - https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Flink+Improvement+Proposals
>                     <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Flink+Improvement+Proposals>
> 
>                     Apache Spark (no roadmap doc I could find, SPIPs not
>                     in real readable format):
>                      - https://spark.apache.org/improvement-proposals.html
>                     <https://spark.apache.org/improvement-proposals.html>
> 
>                     Apache Apex
>                      - http://apex.apache.org/roadmap.html
>                     <http://apex.apache.org/roadmap.html>
> 
>                     Apache Calcite Avatica
>                      - https://calcite.apache.org/avatica/docs/roadmap.html
>                     <https://calcite.apache.org/avatica/docs/roadmap.html>
> 
>                     Apache Kafka
>                      - https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/Future+release+plan
>                     <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/Future+release+plan>
> 
>                     Tensorflow
>                      - https://www.tensorflow.org/community/roadmap
>                     <https://www.tensorflow.org/community/roadmap>
> 
>                     Kubernetes
>                      - https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/milestones
>                     <https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/milestones>
> 
>                     Firefox
>                      - https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/Roadmap
>                     <https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/Roadmap>
> 
>                     Servo
>                      - https://github.com/servo/servo/wiki/Roadmap
>                     <https://github.com/servo/servo/wiki/Roadmap>
> 
>                     Bazel
>                      - https://bazel.build/roadmap.html
>                     <https://bazel.build/roadmap.html>
> 
>                     Kenn
> 
>                     On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 10:34 AM Tim Robertson
>                     <timrobertson100@xxxxxxxxx
>                     <mailto:timrobertson100@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> 
>                         Thanks Kenn, 
> 
>                         I think this is a very good idea.
> 
>                         My preference would be part of the website and
>                         not on a wiki. Those who need to contribute can
>                         do so easily and I find wikis often get
>                         messy/stale/overwhelming. The website will also
>                         mean that we can use dev@ and Jira to track,
>                         discuss and help agree upon the roadmap content
>                         in a more controlled manner than a wiki which
>                         can change without notification. 
> 
>                         I find it difficult to provide input on style /
>                         format without mentioning what might be on it
>                         I'm afraid.
> 
>                         - I'd favour a short concise read (7 mins?) with
>                         links out to Jiras for more detail and to help
>                         show transparent progress
> 
>                         - Potential users currently observing the
>                         project is a very important audience IMO
>                         (en-premise Hadoop users, enterprise users
>                         seeking Kerberos support, AWS cloud users etc).
>                         Might it help for us to identify the audiences
>                         the roadmap is intended for to help steer the style?
> 
>                         Tim
> 
> 
>                         On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 6:35 PM Kenneth Knowles
>                         <kenn@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kenn@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> 
>                             Personally, I think cwiki is best for dev
>                             community, while important stuff for users
>                             should go on the web site. But experimenting
>                             with the content on cwiki seems like a quick
>                             and easy thing to try out.
> 
>                             On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 1:43 AM Maximilian
>                             Michels <mxm@xxxxxxxxxx
>                             <mailto:mxm@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> 
>                                 Great idea, Kenn!
> 
>                                 How about putting the roadmap in the
>                                 Confluent wiki? We can link the
>                                 page from the web site.
> 
>                                 The timeline should not be too specific
>                                 but should give users an idea of
>                                 what to expect.
> 
>                                 On 10.10.18 22:43, Romain Manni-Bucau wrote:
>                                 > What about a link in the menu. It
>                                 should contain a list of features and
>                                 > estimate date with probable error
>                                 (like "in 5 months +- 1 months)
>                                 > otherwise it does not bring much IMHO.
>                                 >
>                                 > Le mer. 10 oct. 2018 23:32, Kenneth
>                                 Knowles <kenn@xxxxxxxxxx
>                                 <mailto:kenn@xxxxxxxxxx>
>                                 > <mailto:kenn@xxxxxxxxxx
>                                 <mailto:kenn@xxxxxxxxxx>>> a écrit :
>                                 >
>                                 >     Hi all,
>                                 >
>                                 >     We made an attempt at putting
>                                 together a sort of roadmap [1] in the
>                                 >     past and also some wide-ranging
>                                 threads about what could be on it
>                                 >     [2]. and I think we should pick it
>                                 up again. The description I
>                                 >     really liked was "strategic and
>                                 user impacting initiatives (ongoing
>                                 >     and future) in an easy to consume
>                                 format" [3]. It seems that we had
>                                 >     feedback asking for a Roadmap at
>                                 the London summit [4].
>                                 >
>                                 >     I would like to first focus on
>                                 meta-questions rather than what would
>                                 >     be on it:
>                                 >
>                                 >       - What style / format should it
>                                 have to be most useful for users?
>                                 >       - Where should it be presented?
>                                 >
>                                 >     I asked a couple people to try to
>                                 find the roadmap on the web site,
>                                 >     as a test, and they didn't really
>                                 know which tab to click on first,
>                                 >     so that's a starting problem. They
>                                 didn't even find Works In
>                                 >     Progress [5] after clicking
>                                 Contribute. The level of detail of that
>                                 >     list varies widely.
>                                 >
>                                 >     I'd also love to see hypothetical
>                                 formats for it, to see how to
>                                 >     balance pithiness with crucial
>                                 details.
>                                 >
>                                 >     Kenn
>                                 >
>                                 >     [1]
>                                 >   
>                                  https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/4e1fffa2fde8e750c6d769bf4335853ad05b360b8bd248ad119cc185@%3Cdev.beam.apache.org%3E
>                                 <https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/4e1fffa2fde8e750c6d769bf4335853ad05b360b8bd248ad119cc185@%3Cdev.beam.apache.org%3E>
>                                 >     [2]
>                                 >   
>                                  https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/f750f288af8dab3f468b869bf5a3f473094f4764db419567f33805d0@%3Cdev.beam.apache.org%3E
>                                 <https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/f750f288af8dab3f468b869bf5a3f473094f4764db419567f33805d0@%3Cdev.beam.apache.org%3E>
>                                 >     [3]
>                                 >   
>                                  https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/60d0333fd9e2c7be2f55e33b0d145f2908e3fe645c008636c86e1133@%3Cdev.beam.apache.org%3E
>                                 <https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/60d0333fd9e2c7be2f55e33b0d145f2908e3fe645c008636c86e1133@%3Cdev.beam.apache.org%3E>
>                                 >     [4]
>                                 >   
>                                  https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/aa1306da25029dff12a49ba3ce63f2caf6a5f8ba73eda879c8403f3f@%3Cdev.beam.apache.org%3E
>                                 <https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/aa1306da25029dff12a49ba3ce63f2caf6a5f8ba73eda879c8403f3f@%3Cdev.beam.apache.org%3E>
>                                 >
>                                 >     [5]
>                                 https://beam.apache.org/contribute/#works-in-progress
>                                 <https://beam.apache.org/contribute/#works-in-progress>
>                                 >
> 
> 

-- 
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbonofre@xxxxxxxxxx
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com