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Re: [DISCUSS] Concerns about the Arrow Slack channel


I would personally prefer to have all questions on the mailing list
for now. I don't know if the community is large enough to provide
consistent attention on an additional communication channel. If there
end up being too many user-centric questions on dev@, we can activate
and use user@ as some other projects (like Spark) do.

I see Discourse as a longer-term possibility. We also need to see if
ASF Infrastructure will support it, which would be the ideal route.

- Wes

On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 10:55 AM, Dhruv Madeka <madeka@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> It might be nice to have the discourse option before shutting it down. As
> someone who asks, that would be a nice way to get me to migrate
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 10:53 AM, Wes McKinney <wesmckinn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> hi folks,
>>
>> How would you like to proceed on the Slack channel discussion? It
>> seems there is reasonable consensus to close the channel. Should we
>> have a vote?
>>
>> It would be a good idea to export the data / chat history from the
>> channel before closing it down.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Wes
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:36 PM, Wes McKinney <wesmckinn@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> > It's sort of unrelated to this conversation, but since someone
>> > mentioned MXNet I want to call attention to a thread on their podling
>> > mailing list about JIRA vs. GitHub issues:
>> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b4d174223d68c5822ea538f2609281
>> c8023c7cc1eaef298bb2c4c186@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E.
>> >
>> > To summarize the thread: a lot of people don't like change, but
>> > sometimes change is good. Some people have complained privately to me
>> > that Arrow doesn't work like any other random project on GitHub.
>> > Anyone who doesn't contribute to the project on account of that is,
>> > IMHO, not a serious contributor.
>> >
>> > I personally find JIRA to be an excellent tool, but it's a steeper
>> > learning curve than GitHub and so it does take a bit of effort to
>> > learn its features.
>> >
>> > - Wes
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:05 PM, Wes McKinney <wesmckinn@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> >> Thanks all. I'm intrigued by Discourse (for some reason I keep typing
>> >> "discourge.org"); we should inquire with ASF infra to see if they
>> >> would be willing to support it for us. It's important that we develop
>> >> a public record for the project, and for that data to be archived and
>> >> indexed in some place that is owned by the ASF. I'm frankly -0 on
>> >> having a fourth communication channel (outside of e-mail/JIRA/GitHub)
>> >> since three is already a lot to keep track of. If we had a larger
>> >> maintainer team, I might feel differently.
>> >>
>> >> Travis had some questions about GitHub and JIRA. JIRA is the only
>> >> system of record for concrete development activity in the project. We
>> >> use GitHub pull requests to submit patches (some projects use Gerrit,
>> >> or attach patch files to JIRA), but all of the data generated on these
>> >> PRs (code review comments, etc.) is mirrored back to JIRA.
>> >> Furthermore, JIRA activity is relayed to the issues@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> mailing list. So ultimately we have a public record for the project on
>> >> mailing lists.
>> >>
>> >> Many newcomers have never interacted with an Apache project before,
>> >> and so when they go to http://github.com/apache/arrow their first
>> >> reaction is to look for the Issues tab to report a bug or ask for
>> >> something. For a long time we didn't have issues turned on, and we
>> >> found that people were "bouncing" rather than seeking out the mailing
>> >> list or JIRA. We'd rather capture the information somewhere rather
>> >> than lose it. We have an issue template asking people to either use
>> >> the mailing list or JIRA, but a lot of people ignore it unfortunately:
>> >> https://github.com/apache/arrow/blob/master/.github/ISSUE_TEMPLATE.md.
>> >>
>> >> - Wes
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 10:52 PM, Kenta Murata <muraken@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> >>> Hi everyone,
>> >>>
>> >>> I heard from Kou that you’re discussing to stop using Slack.
>> >>> So I want to propose another way to use Discourse.
>> >>>
>> >>> On 2018/06/21 18:46:54, Dhruv Madeka <m...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>> The issue with discourse is that you either have to host it or pay
>> for them
>> >>>> to host it
>> >>>
>> >>> Discourse provides free hosting plan for community friendly opensource
>> projects.
>> >>> See this article for the details:
>> >>> <https://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-
>> hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/>
>> >>>
>> >>>> but still +1 for discourse, its a really nice format (I actually
>> +1'ed the
>> >>>> PyTorch forum on this thread too)
>> >>>
>> >>> I’m also +1 for discourse because I’m managing
>> https://discourse.ruby-data.org/ by this plan.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards,
>> >>> Kenta Murata
>>