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Re: [VOTE][RESULT] Replace with Gitter with Slack?


are there any instructions on how to join the slack workspace?

On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 9:57 PM Sid Anand <sanand@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Thanks for the context.
>
> So, I created the slack workspace and it has ~ 100 people on it now and it
> pretty active.
>
> What's pretty cool is that some folks created regional channels (e.g.
> singapore, boston, etc...), which is a good way to seed future meetups.
>
> At some point, we may want to retire the Gitter channel.
> -s
>
> On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:45 PM Jakob Homan <jghoman@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > So, binding VOTEs are generally only called on releases, where PMC
> > members get those binding votes (and on electing new committers or PMC
> > members, and those votes happen in private on the private list).
> > Communities often call VOTEs on other things, like logos, questions of
> > sponsorship, large scale tech decisions, etc.  How those VOTEs are
> > executed (consesus [ie anyone with a binding vote can VETO] or
> > majority) are up to the community to decide.
> >
> > The community can codify those decisions with bylaws (Here's Hadoop's:
> > https://hadoop.apache.org/bylaws.html).  However, extensive bylaws are
> > considered an anti-pattern - they can be indicative of a fractured or
> > unwieldy community.  This is why Incubator projects are not generally
> > recommended to go down this route.  Also, incubator podlings are not
> > separate top-level projects, and so would be governed by the Incubator
> > project bylaws, which as far as I can tell, don't exist.
> >
> > Also, keep in mind that the bylaws of any particular project are valid
> > at the pleasure of the Board.  If the Board deems any part of them
> > invalid, which it has done even very recently, it can come in and
> > require the project to change them immediately.
> >
> > As for the current discussion, the large number of <1 votes, is a bit
> > concerning.  This is indicative of lack of consensus and that further
> > discussion is probably warranted.  Whether or not it's an official
> > result is up for debate.
> >
> > However, one thing worth noting is that there's no 'official' gitter
> > or slack channel for any ASF project.  The only official communication
> > medium for ASF is mailing lists.  The edict 'If it didn't happen on
> > the mailing list, it didn't happen' is one of the axioms of the Apache
> > Way [1][2].  There's also no official IRC channel or official Stack
> > Overflow tag or official in-person meetup.  Every member of the
> > community is welcome to participate in whatever forum they want, but
> > the only place things actually happen is on the list.  Any non-PMC
> > discussions can happen anywhere, but if a decision needs to occur as
> > part of that discussion, the discussion needs to be re-homed onto the
> > mailing list and made there.  Part of the PMC's job is to enforce and
> > model this behavior.
> >
> > Speaking entirely for myself, I'm not comfortable with the invitation
> > model of Slack discussions.  For most of my time at Apache, irc was
> > the way to go for most projects.  Some had very active irc channels
> > and some were nearly dead.  (The #infra irc channel is a godsend
> > though.)
> >
> > And again, this type of meta discussion is awesome.  It shows the
> > project is maturing and thinking through some of the edge cases of
> > what it means to an Apache project.
> >
> > -Jakob
> >
> >
> >
> > [1]
> >
> https://community.apache.org/newbiefaq.html#NewbieFAQ-IsthereaCodeofConductforApacheprojects
> > ?
> > [2]
> >
> https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/success-at-apache-asynchronous-decision
> >
> > On 8 September 2018 at 23:14, Sid Anand <sanand@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > Taking Binding votes into account :
> > >
> > > +1: 1 vote
> > >
> > >    - Sid Anand
> > >
> > > 0: 2 votes
> > >
> > >    - Bolke de Bruin
> > >    - Kaxil Naik
> > >
> > > -0.5: 1 vote
> > >
> > >    - Arthur Wiedmer
> > >
> > >
> > > Vote result is a net positive of +0.5.
> > >
> > > I counted all of the PMC/committers' votes as binding.
> > >
> > > -s
> > >
> > > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:07 PM Arthur Wiedmer <
> arthur.wiedmer@xxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Sid,
> > >>
> > >> Erm, the next line is (emphasis mine) :
> > >>
> > >> PMC members have formally binding votes, but in general community
> > members
> > >> are encouraged to vote, even if their votes are *only advisory*.
> > >>
> > >> Again, that's not to say that the community at large cannot decide to
> > host
> > >> a Slack channel. I think you are more than welcome to if you want to.
> > >>
> > >> Best,
> > >> Arthur
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:59 PM Sid Anand <sanand@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Why doesn't every vote matter for this topic?
> > >> > https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#binding-votes
> > >> >
> > >> > Am I misinterpreting the "Who is permitted to vote is, to some
> > extent, a
> > >> > community-specific thing."?
> > >> >
> > >> > For the established Apache processes around promoting a contributor
> to
> > >> > committer/PMC, deciding on the number of +1s to allow a merge to
> > master,
> > >> or
> > >> > voting on releases, I understand the need to follow the
> > >> binding/non-binding
> > >> > protocol. In all of those cases, the outcomes affect maintainers.
> > >> >
> > >> > My understanding is that this topic affects the entire community,
> > where
> > >> > some members of the community are helping others. This seems to chug
> > >> along
> > >> > without maintainers being present. Hence, why do maintainers' votes
> > >> matter
> > >> > more here?
> > >> >
> > >> > Question for the mentors.. Jakob?
> > >> >
> > >> > -s
> > >> >
> > >> > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:27 PM Bolke de Bruin <bdbruin@xxxxxxxxx>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Committers can only vote binding. Most of the time it is tagged
> by,
> > >> > > indeed, adding "binding" to the vote.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > On 9 Sep 2018, at 07:20, Scott Halgrim <
> scott.halgrim@xxxxxxxxxx
> > >> > .INVALID>
> > >> > > wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > What makes a vote binding? Just putting “(binding)” after your
> > vote?
> > >> > > >> On Sep 8, 2018, 10:19 PM -0700, Bolke de Bruin <
> > bdbruin@xxxxxxxxx>,
> > >> > > wrote:
> > >> > > >> Sorry sid, only binding votes directly count to the vote.
> Please
> > >> > update
> > >> > > the
> > >> > > >> result accordingly.
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> Btw did you ask on gitter itself?
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> Op zo 9 sep. 2018 03:47 schreef Sid Anand <sanand@xxxxxxxxxx>:
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>> +1: 12 votes
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> - Sid Anand
> > >> > > >>> - Steve Carpenter
> > >> > > >>> - Beau Barker
> > >> > > >>> - Marc Bollinger
> > >> > > >>> - Pedro Machado
> > >> > > >>> - Scott Halgrim
> > >> > > >>> - Eamon Keane
> > >> > > >>> - Adam Boscarino
> > >> > > >>> - Daniel Cohen
> > >> > > >>> - Chandu Kavar
> > >> > > >>> - William Horton
> > >> > > >>> - Ben Gregory
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> 0: 2 votes
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> - Bolke de Bruin
> > >> > > >>> - Kaxil Naik
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> -0.5: 1 vote
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> - Arthur Wiedmer
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> -1: 4 votes
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> - Shah Altaf
> > >> > > >>> - James Meickle
> > >> > > >>> - Ravi Kotecha
> > >> > > >>> - airflowuser (??)
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> The vote concludes with 12 votes for and 4.5 votes against.
> The
> > >> > > community
> > >> > > >>> has opted to move to Slack from Gitter.
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> -s
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
>
-- 
Andrew Harmon
(202) 615-6433